I guess don't need to tell them what you checked. They should know what the most likely culprits are.

You're right, A half decent shop should have mechanics with the skills to be able to check and diagnose what the issue could be.

This will be a test weather i continue my business with this stealership or not, I'm hoping they can pinpoint the issue and resolve it, I've been waiting for some parts to come from Kawasaki/Stealership for about 6 months now. 2 ram air covers i got from them were faulty, So waiting on replacement parts.. They're still fine, But have got cracks in them.

Not sure who is telling me fibs about where my parts are, But i'm a little bit tired of the waiting now.

Bike fired up, was running rough for a few seconds then stalled, started up again revved it a little and it idled fine.

* Last updated by: j0no on 7/8/2018 @ 8:24 PM *

Did you try shaking the PC3 ground wire again?

Did you try shaking the PC3 ground wire again?

Earlier in the morning I did, but it still didn’t start that time. Kept it hooked up to the battery tender while I started it this time, but it did take multiple tries.

* Last updated by: j0no on 7/9/2018 @ 4:13 AM *

Find the hot side of the pc and disable it. Why? Because the spark plug has a ground on its own. Therefore, by removing the pc's ground you still have a ground at the coil where the hot side of the pc is using = Still a complete circuit. That's why you pull the hot side of the pc. Get the aftmrk out of the loop if you want bulletproof starts. Only your hot side knows for sure.

Pullling the hot side of the PC is pulling those damn plugs apart.

Steps 1 and 2 here.

http://zx14ninjaforum.com/messages.cfm?threadid=21729D08-1B78-59F6-024CE7E1806DDB0C

I'd be curious to know how a shop disconnects these. If they don't have a special tool, I would worry about the wiring getting damaged. It takes me about 45 minutes to get one of these apart. If you're not patient, something could break or a wire ripped out. I've never heard of that happening but damn, for just being a plug, this one is a beotch.

* Last updated by: Rook on 7/9/2018 @ 5:28 PM *

Let's run the 50/50 then... half the theory says it runs stock with the ground removed from the rez. The other half says no change [hot still has ground in play]. Make sense?

Make sense?

Just about to take my bike down now, and guess what.. it fired right up within the first little press.

The shop is going to check everything out (PC MAP, Grounding, Fast idle,TPS) There's a veteran Power Commander user/mechanic in the service department and he’s going to check the map, I asked to have it emailed to me soo can look/ share it here.

* Last updated by: j0no on 7/10/2018 @ 6:45 AM *

Now the gremlins will make it start every time until you get it back home!

...but why ground the module then?

There are 4 Paths to follow - Think like an integrated chip (IC). Ever see those black squares/rectangles with the 4 legs on each side? 2 legs are taken up via power (in) and then a ground source (out). http://www.next.gr/uploads/3/Circuit%2BDiagram%2Bof%2B555%2Btimer%2Bin%2BAstable%2BMode.jpg Look at it like a pc box. You'll see how it wires up to the bike via 3 basic paths. The 4th variable, we'll play with that one. Bottom line, this is just your basic 3 wire variable:
1. Wire [IN] or into the black box or pc [a processor] is a 12v source, and that heads into leg 8.
2. Wire [OUT] is the ground wire out of the pc going to the radi/raz bolt and that is soldered to leg 1.
3. Wire 2 goes to the ECU.
4. Wire 3 goes to the injector.

Wire 2 is going to receive the pulse width signal on the input side.
Wire 3 is going to change the pulse width (map) and send it out to the injector.
The jobber (pc) needs a ground. Why? It changes from 12v to 5v and the IC needs its own ground to make the jobber work.

OK. Easy enough to take the ground off.

Start the bike up. Remove the PC ground while the bike runs. If the bike doesn't die, Hub is right and you can assume the bike will now start without intervention in the fueling. If the bike starts without intervention from the PC, you can assume the PC is the problem or the map in the PC.

If the bike dies when you remove the PC ground, you need to remove the PC connectors from the T-bodies harness and hook up hook the harness/stock. If the bike now starts, it's the PC or the map.

The easiest thing to do to eliminate the map variable is hook up a laptop and look at the map. O% Throttle position should be all zeros at least in the rpm range where the bike starts.

the ghost glitch could easily be living within the PCIII. Hopefully the shop will solve it. If it acts up in the future, I would completely remove the PCIII. Its a ~10 yr old $300 electronics module living on a hot vibrating monster, wont live forever ya know. If the ghost glitch reappears after the exorcism at least ya know its not that box

Its a ~10 yr old $300 electronics module living on a hot vibrating monster, wont live forever ya know. If the ghost glitch reappears after the exorcism at least ya know its not that box

Possibly older than that and maybe not the only bike it's been on. My PC5 is 8 years old.

If it ends up being a malfunctioning PC3 and I eventually remove it, will there be much of a power difference? I really enjoy the power of my bike, I’m riding a 2016 Z800 and man it feels gutless!! Maybe I’m just spoiled with it power on my 14!

"they're going to check the PC3 Ground"...they might check it,as per the PC3 install instructions,and say...'oh,it's fine'.I'd ground it somewhere else(personally).I think I attached mine to the bolt on the subframe in there.After filing the paint off.I did on my 07.
And I'm a bit confused with the instructions shown by the Rookster.WHY are you removing throttlebodies and such?You only add the harness and the ground to the bike.TWO large plugs,and one small wire.Am I missing something?I must be....I never removed the throttlebodies.

"On my '06 I think I just unbolted the tank and rotated it 90 deg when I was removing the 2nd flys"...yes.Just be careful you don't bend that fuel line.(kink it).Watch it carefully when moving.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 7/10/2018 @ 11:11 PM *

Can't remember if it was this thread but I might have suggested removing the T-bodies to take the valve cover off.

If it ends up being a malfunctioning PC3 and I eventually remove it, will there be much of a power difference?

No. Plain and simple, the people screaming about how great their bike runs after an AFR tune, I think they're deluded by all the hype. The change will be a nuance. I wouldn't want to run around with an expensive full system exhaust unless I had the tune to optimize it but as far as power and throttle response, I doubt you will notice anything except maybe a little less smooth here and a little choppy there.

Yeah, if you check my PC5 underseat install, I show where that bolthole in the side subframe is. There's some kind of bracket there you can put the ring terminal under. I got rid of the bracket and now I don't even have a side subframe. I think my PC5 is grounded on the LH side outside the battery box now where there is an unused threaded hole.

No. Plain and simple, the people screaming about how great their bike runs after an AFR tune, I think they're deluded by all the hype. The change will be a nuance. I wouldn't want to run around with an expensive full system exhaust unless I had the tune to optimize it but as far as power and throttle response, I doubt you will notice anything except maybe a little less smooth here and a little choppy there.

I really enjoy the power it's got, But there's a slight weak spot at about 3k RPM when i'm cruising in 1st/second gear, that id like gone.. But it could be normal

* Last updated by: j0no on 7/11/2018 @ 4:08 AM *

I really enjoy the power it's got, But there's a slight weak spot at about 3k RPM when i'm cruising in 1st/second gear, that id like gone.. But it could be normal

That is normal if it's an 08-11. 3k is where the flies open in the lower gears. The power comes on rather suddenly. Annoying most of the time and downright dangerous if you take off into a corner fast. If the mapping is right and your flies are out, you can just about eliminate that. Either that or tune flies by flash and remap for that. Just removing the flies did nothing to change the abrupt throttle response in mine. I tried two maps and not much of a change there either. Autotune took care of it and that's one example of how a PC comes in handy as opposed to running stock. I can't say the bike makes loads more power but the power is smooth and linear.

That is normal if it's an 08-11. 3k is where the flies open in the lower gears. The power comes on rather suddenly. Annoying most of the time and downright dangerous if you take off into a corner fast. If the mapping is right and your flies are out, you can just about eliminate that. Either that or tune flies by flash and remap for that. Just removing the flies did nothing to change the abrupt throttle response in mine. I tried two maps and not much of a change there either. Autotune took care of it and that's one example of how a PC comes in handy as opposed to running stock. I can't say the bike makes loads more power but the power is smooth and linear.

Yeah it’s an 08, once it’s passed that flat spot it’s an absolute animal right up until I shift gears, and the power doesn’t stop, just keeps on pulling right through the gears

* Last updated by: j0no on 7/11/2018 @ 4:24 PM *

Yeah it’s an 08

Same here!!

Mines the same colour too!!

Awesome!! Fastest year, fastest color!!!

Fastest year, fastest color!!!

Really the fastest year? I know the colour is quite unique, had a few compliments on the paint.

Went into the shop this evening, And apparently the starting issue was due to a poor PC3 Ground. I'll know for sure when i try start it on the weekend.

Everything was fine, Valves, Charging system, fuel pump, PC3 map was good, Plugs were still good.

* Last updated by: j0no on 7/12/2018 @ 3:27 AM *

Really the fastest year?

Went into the shop this evening, And apparently the starting issue was due to a poor PC3 Ground.

* Last updated by: Rook on 7/12/2018 @ 7:44 AM *