Dogo, do you own an inch-ounce torque wrench? The installation manual calls for only 60 inch-ounce torque on the terminal bolts and it warns against over-torque. That's pretty light torque....almost nothing. The terminals themselves look very light, I hate to use flimsy here but that word comes to mind and the hardware includes no lockwashers. I torqued them by feel but did use German torque specs i.e. Guten Tight!

I just e-mailed David Radford at Shorai and mentioned this to him as being the only area of concern that I had.

You'll see what I'm talking about when you get your batteries.

I'm thinking about going back in and using a small dab of RTV silicone on the terminal bolts as a safety, my Power Commander grounds at the battery terminal on the CBR and if the connection ever came loose, the engine quits. I found that out the hardway on my ZX-10R.

Kruz

* Last updated by: Kruz on 1/18/2011 @ 8:49 AM *

The terminals themselves look very light, I hate to use flimsy here but that word comes to mind

Flimsy and lightweight seem to go hand in hand. I wouldn't let that stop me from buying one. It is alway is good to be aware of the issues so the equipment can be used safely.

Dogo, do you own an inch-ounce torque wrench? The installation manual calls for only 60 inch-ounce torque on the terminal bolts and it warns against over-torque. That's pretty light torque....almost nothing. The terminals themselves look very light, I hate to use flimsy here but that word comes to mind and the hardware includes no lockwashers. I torqued them by feel but did use German torque specs i.e. Guten Tight!

I do... but I'll probably just brush up on my German as well. Torque wrench for battery terminals.

David Radford from Shorai got back to me right away and they are upgrading the terminals to a thicker metal in the near future but it sounds like these will be fine, just don't strong arm them like you would with a Yuasa terminal. (1badZx12r comes to mind here LOL).

I went ahead and printed my original e-mail and David's reply below so you could hear it in his own words.

Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2011 1:42 PM
Subject: RE: Shorai Contact request

Hi John,

The terminals aren’t anchored at the back, because if they were someone using a “too long” screw would be able to punch through the case and directly into the battery, which would be bad… As a result, using an end wrench rather than a screwdriver can allow the rear foot on the terminal to rise out of its depression in the case, and then the terminals can twist a bit. Even if they do, it is really no problem, except ecstatically.

We are doing a rolling upgrade for future production to change the terminals from 1.0mm to 1.2mm thick, which should help. We are also making larger “block” shape nuts. Having said that, they aren’t that delicate even now, imo, and if you use a screwdriver it can help a lot.

If you use a #3 screwdriver to install the screws, you can push down on the terminal which locks the terminal “foot” into the depression in the case, and get good torque without twisting the terminals. 60 oz/inch (5 ft/lbs) is standard for a screw of this type, and I haven’t had any come loose in 2 years of testing. But if it is a concern I suggest using a little thread-locking blue Loctite.

Thanks for everything, and the forum posts!

David

Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2011 7:38 AM
To: David Radford - Shorai Inc. Tech
Subject: RE: Shorai Contact request

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Hello David,

I installed the battery in my ’07 CBR 1000RR last Saturday and it cranked very strongly at an ambient temperature of 45 F which is about as cold as I normally ride so all is good. I reported my positive results on several of the forums and a lot of the guys are starting to order them from Superbike Supply.

The installation was straight forward but I did have one area of concern and that is with the 60 inch-ounce torque on the terminal bolts and the light weight design of the terminals themselves. The smallest torque wrench I own is 0-20 lb-ft so I had to guesstimate the torque but this is almost no torque at all and there is no locking device (lock washer etc.) as a back up. I have had battery connections come loose due to engine vibrations before with way more torque than that and because the Power Commander grounds at the battery negative terminal on my CBR, the engine will quit if a terminal bolt should loosen. Not a good scenario in the bumper to bumper freeway traffic I ride in.

Are these terminals that delicate i.e. is it that easy to overtorque and damage them? There seemed to be a strong warning against this in the installation instructions and most of the guys do not own an inch-ounce torque wrench. The Yuasa lead/acid batteries most us are used to have robust terminals that are almost impossible to damage.

This is really the only area of concern I have with what appears to be a ground breaking and very welcome new technology.

Best regards,

David Radford from Shorai got back to me right away and they are upgrading the terminals to a thicker metal in the near future

So you and I got the limited edition "ultra lite" series, with break away terminals... nice.

* Last updated by: DogoZX on 1/18/2011 @ 6:11 PM *

So you and I got the limited edition "ultra lite" series, with break away terminals... nice.

it is really no problem, except ecstatically.

ec·stat·ic Noun /ek?statik/
Synonyms:
adjective: rapturous, rapt
ecstatics plural
A person subject to mystical experiences
ec·stat·ic Adjective /ek?statik/
Feeling or expressing overwhelming happiness or joyful excitement
ecstatic fans filled the stadium
Involving an experience of mystic self-transcendence
an ecstatic vision
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

..........and if they do, then there could be a problem with one those moments of riding 'ecstasy.'

LOL I think he meant "aesthetically".

So you and I got the limited edition "ultra lite" series, with break away terminals... nice.

I don't really believe you have anything to worry about there Dogo, I'm a bit of a worry wart and over think these things sometimes.

When you get your batts you'll see what's up, my deal was the 60 ounce-inch torque specified in the installation manual is wrong...... I believe. 60 ounce-inch is only .3125 ft-lbs, Google an online unit converter and try it yourself. David told me to use 5 ft-lbs, same thing as 60 ounce-inch. This is not the case, 60 inch-lbsis the same as 5 ft-lbs, not 60 ounce-inch. I think the mfg meant to specify 60 inch-lbs not 60 ounce-inch for the installation torque. There is a 1600% difference between the two values, that is significant. Example: A torque of 80 ft-lbs is needed to torque your rear axle nut and the manufacturer mistakenly specifies only 5 ft-lbs in the service manual. Same thing, X 16 difference and your back wheel comes off. Ok rant over!

^^I think those guys rely way to much on spell check. Hope they didn't hire the the same copywriter as ZX-14 owners manual.

* Last updated by: Rook on 1/19/2011 @ 7:44 AM *

"ultra lightweight" series with breakaway terminals...nice".....LOL!!!Dogo,yer a friggin Hoot!

* Last updated by: blue07 on 1/19/2011 @ 10:57 AM *

Got Battery today. Nice guy knocked on my door and needed 50.02$ on top of the 200.77 I already paid. Being from Canada & buying bike parts not so nice(off topic). That's what I paid anyway. Cheers.

* Last updated by: Romans on 1/19/2011 @ 6:27 PM *

"special handling fee?"...geez....what a rip off.

geez....what a rip off.

So in my hand 250.79. What was your total cost guys ?

Romans, I shelled out $170 with 2nd day UPS shipping service for my 14 amp-hour Shorai. If I had waited a few days it would have been $139 including shipping from Superbike Supply. Hey, it's all good Romans, I'm tired of these lead/acids batteries crapping out every time I turn around. Replaced two already in the last month (VTX and CBR) and now the 14 battery is getting weak and it's only 15 months old. These Shorais can't sulfate so we should get much better service life out of them and they can sit all winter without a tender and it won't bother them a bit.

What do you think about the battery quality? You can tell Dogo the terminals are going to be plenty strong, I think he was contemplating suicide the last time I talked to him. LOL!

You got the big boy, 18 amp-hour. That oughta crank that 14 over really nice. Let us know how it works out.

Still no word from Shorai on the proper torque on these terminals. Check out the installation sheet you got with your new battery, it says not to exceed 60 ounce-inch torque (.3125 ft-lbs.) The tech at Shorai said in his e-mail that they use 5 ft-lbs which sounds a lot more reasonable but which is the correct value, 5ft-lb or .3125 ft-lb?..Big difference! If I don't hear from them today I will call their tech support hotline and push for clarification on this issue. In the menatime, torque 'em til they smoke and then back off a quarter turn!

2.2 lbs for an 18 amp-hour...sweet! What did your stock lead/acid boat anchor weigh?

Hmmm...5 ft/lbs is less than the outer clutch springs.Not much...almost hand tight only.

You see my point blue07? 5 ft-lbs is not much but the sheet that comes with the battery says to use 1/16th that amount or .3125 ft-lbs (60 ounce-inch). I think they made a boo-boo on their installation sheet and don't want to admit it.

I work in tech support and we have stuff ups like this all the time. Best way to get the customers confidence back is be straight up with them, admit you hosed up and tell 'em how you're going to fix it. Customers are typically very forgiving when you admit there's a problem and give 'em a solution. I never try to cover anything up, the customer will lose confidence in you and you can never get it back.

* Last updated by: Kruz on 1/20/2011 @ 7:54 AM *

REALLY!!!! why would they even put torque specs out there for a battery? who beside kruz (lol) would even try to torque battery terminals....lil bit of locktite and ur good

You can tell Dogo the terminals are going to be plenty strong, I think he was contemplating suicide the last time I talked to him.

I'd never do me ex-wife the courtesy.

So in my hand 250.79. What was your total cost guys ?

OUCH! I didn't pay much more for two of 'em!
Does FedEx stick you Canucks with fees like that too... or is that just a UPS thing?
Superbike Supply sent mine out FedEx.

Have you hooked your new batt up yet?

1/16th that amount....hmmmm,you mean,glue em on? Snug em down an' call er good(Scott...help these guys will ya?(J/K)LOL!!)

Right now I'm lookin out my window here..nice...snow's falling ever so gently...how pleasant.Shi$...no ridin today.Guess I'll switch up my gearing then.WTH.

* Last updated by: blue07 on 1/20/2011 @ 10:15 AM *

.hmmmm,you mean,glue em on?

LOL

Just hold the skinny post with a channel locks to stabilize it and torque that sucker to 5 lbs. That's what they meant to say in the instructions. Somebody screwed up writing that and printed a million copies already. It's a new company. As far as we know, they may have never tested exactly how much torque is best. They're prolly guessing which is what they know everyone ele is going to do instead of read the book. lol

Still no reply from Shorai so I sent them another e-mail just a moment ago....weird. ScotJkyl, I think you missed my point. I normally don't use a torque wrench for a battery terminal either but if you'll go back and read my posts, Shorai specifies an incredibly low torque of 60 ounce-inch (about the strength of a good popcorn fart) in their installation manual and then warns not to exceed it. This raised an alarm, why such a low torque value? Anyway, I think it's a typo and they meant to say use a normal torque of 60 inch-lbs, just dont bend the terminals. Anyway who cares, it's a free country, you can twist yours til they snap off and no ones going to say anything.

* Last updated by: Kruz on 1/20/2011 @ 2:14 PM *

kruz i wasnt raggin on u bud i just couldnt believe that they put a torque value in the instructions. hell maybe all battries come with torque specs i wouldnt know never have read the instructions its a freakin batt lol probably something they have to state to cover their asses for the people snapping the posts off. but i understand what your saying about the misprint youd think they would have proof read their instructions before they had a million copies printed up

"About the strength of a good popcorn fart".....they shoulda just printed THAT up...EVERYONE can understand that!Just how friggin "flimsy" ARE these terminal posts anyway?Kruz.....?please say ya didn't get burned again....you didn't,right?
I'm lookin at that pic above there...they don't look TOO bad to me.Guess it'd be better to snap the post off than do what I did...crack the terminal INSIDE the case from TOO MUCH torque!What a fricken dumbazz ...ahem...TWICE I might add.That'd be a double dumb ass.(at least the battery was only $57 bucks...stocker OEM).

You don't suppose possibly they might melt down while yer ridin do ya?Wouldn't that be HOOT!We still haven't really tested one with the 14 yet...with full electrics(jackets,pants,gloves)goin.

You know yer in trouble when yer English Proofreader is Chinese .Kinda like that guy in Dogo's vid talkin about "Lay control do Willy".LMAO!!!!!That's the best part of that whole deal!Looks like a bitchen track those guys are on...sweet!

* Last updated by: blue07 on 1/20/2011 @ 4:43 PM *

Just finished the install. What should have been 30 mins took over two hours. Post more when I calm down.
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* Last updated by: Romans on 1/20/2011 @ 6:14 PM *