Well Holiday Monday started out normally. Began playing with gearing changes looking for stutter related issues. All Good. From there, three of us decided to make the trip out to the track. Well, this is where things get interesting and not in a good way.

While on route riding our 407 series highway, one bike is no longer in my mirror. Second rider pulls up waving,,,,,, Alarm bells now going off. This highway is Not the place to have issues. Traffic Flows at a steady 130 kph. Any issue no matter how small is most definitely not wanted.

Two of us double back to search for the missing rider,,,, stressss. When we find him almost 30min later, bike is located up against center medium of the divided highway. We can see seat off, grill off the bike. Now what,,,,, Bad bad place to be parked. We have trouble getting across the highway due to heavy traffic.

While I'm calling for tow truck the boys get bike across to shoulder side of the highway.

The rider described he heard a bang and bike died instantly while smoke bellowed out around his legs. Got to the guide rail and hoped off to watch it burn. Speed at the time was 80mph.

What I see when we get there is smoke coming out of battery box. High Heat is very clear. Paint bubbling, plastics are melting bike is possibly going to burn. Pulling the ground off seemed to remove the internal short. Heat subsides, now quickly pull out the still smoking battery. Not Impressed ! See Pics.

This is the second report I have heard of these batteries exploding here locally. If your thinking to buy one of these batteries,,,,,,,, Let the pics be your guide.

As for the bike, im starting on it in a few minutes. My hope is the ABS system is ok. Looking back in a positive way, this could have been much much worse.

Sorry to hear of your bad experience, and thanks for the warning on these crappy batteries.

Thanks for posting. Love the lightweight battery technology that has come out in the last 6 years but this type of thing is not new. Shorai is probably the best known frontrunner in the industry and it had the same sort of problem when it first came out. I remember seeing pics of bike that literally caught on fire and burned up. Antigravity has been in the biz for a while. Maybe there was just a bad lot that got out. I guess any company that produces lightweight batteries might be considered a newcomer because the industry itself is still brand new.

I've never heard what the exact cause of these kinds of fires are but I haven't heard any more bad press about Shorai. There's lots of other lifpo type batteries out now but I don't feel tempted to try anything different than Shorai after hearing this.

BTW, my lil 12Ah Shorai in the ZX-14 is stll kickin after 6 years (fingers crossed). I'd get a second one for the busa if it needed a new battery.

Sidenote: I've heard of a GoPro camera melting down while charging on the computer USB. Yup, mine gets warm but no fires.

Crazy shit, and it's a blessing no one got seriously injured. I have been thinking about one of the lightweight batteries but I have not taken the plunge.... This makes me second guess myself since it is a pleasure vehicle, not all out competition. Shorai has the same issues? Or all of them do?

seno shorai had these issues when they first came out. More than a few stories on ktmtalk. Those issues seem long ago with no more stories floating around. The other brands are newer and may not have all the bugs worked out. I'm hoping the battery tender brand I have is OK.

I was so happy with the Shorai lithium battery I bought for my previous Honda RC51, I decided to 'be nice' and buy my brother-in-law one for his YZF-R1 (well the Alien Motion brand version anyway). Luck ran out. Something was wrong, still not sure what, but he decided to take it to the shop the let them diagnose his electrical system thinking it had a problem, but after a week and some $$$ they found nothing wrong but the battery. But here's the thing: While the shop had the bike with the brand new lithium battery, they apparently over-charged the battery since when he got it back the battery was hugely swollen, sides bulging out like mad, melted. That's when I learned (and the shop should've already known) that 1) you should not charge a lithium battery with a regular lead acid battery charger, and 2) you should also not jump-start a lithium battery off a vehicle with a regular lead-acid battery ... bad things happen. I have quite a few emails back-and-forth with the Alien Motion tech answering questions and explaining that lithium batteries can't handle the in-rush from a lead-acid battery.

I will probably not buy another lithium battery, unless vehicle manufacturers design their vehicle for them.

Oh, and I still have my emails from dealing with Alien Motion after the swollen battery:

Me: "So a regular charger for a lead acid battery actually kills these lithium batteries? If so, how does a bike's alternator not do the same?"

Alien Motion tech: "It's not about the charging, most likely the service technican attempted to jump start the motorcycle from a lead acid. You cannot do this because in most situations the huge ungoverned inrush of current will damage lithium batteries. We see swelling of the battery in this situation and with bad regulator/recitifiers."

Me: "Will connecting jumper cables from a car's lead acid battery to the bike's lithium also damage the lithium?"

Alien Motion tech: "Yes and that will apply to all lithiums for the same reason as stated below. It can't regulate the amount of amperage or current into the battery, unlike your bike's regulator/recitifier and stator. I hope that helps so that it doesn't become an issue with your battery."

Sorry, here's more. I was discussing the lithium problems with guys on the RC51 forums, and here are two of theirs posts as well:

I have a or should I say had a Shorai LFX18A1-BS12 and mistakenly plugged it up to my standard lead acid charger and it now no longer is holding a charge. I guess it was one of the ones that Shorai advises against. Really disappointed, that battery wasn't cheap. I'm going back to a genuine Yuasa albeit the YTZ-7s.

I picked up a Adventure power just about a year ago, seems I've done everything your not suppose to.....
They say it had a amazing shelf life but they don't tell you under a certain temp that shel life is drastically reduced. After a few months of sitting I found it stone dead. Then while charging it I walked away for a minute and it over charged. I brought the voltage down and it's been fine since.
Another thing I found out, during cold weather starting it's advised to turn the lights on for 30sec before starting to get the battery going.

Now there were also 6 or 8 other guys that had various brands of lithiums that said they're happy and had had no problems (yet! )

Glad no one got hurt, Send the pics to Antigravity, maybe they will help you with repairs.....Obviously their product was defective and it could have been alot worse.

Man that sucks. Thanks for the heads up. Indeed lithium are a step more risky and everyone should be aware there's at least a small increase in this type of incident by using them.

Hey can we get a little more feedback on one issue please?

You say as soon as you pulled off the ground cable it removed the "internal short"? It sounds to me that if removing the cable removed the short that the short was in fact external and not internal?

I wonder about this for two reasons:

- If so the owner is going to have to carefully investigate the cause before re-energizing any electricals

- The battery may not be at fault?

I'd like to hear more about that.

teef,
Good question and thought direction.
Very important to insure no problems before reconnecting power again.
I picked up the battery tender brand lithium and charger this summer for my bike and am hoping for good life and performance from an established brand even if it is for charging systems.

Dave

* Last updated by: david5525 on 10/14/2015 @ 8:54 PM *

DEFINITELY contact the manufacturer. Had a Duracell AAA leak in my Scorpio alarm remote that they don't make anymore. Contacted Duracell and they had me send in the remote and bill of sale; about 4-5 weeks later I had a check for $300..... All I had to do was sign a few forms, provided a receipt and the remote that was damaged. I got really lucky because next week there was a dude selling 2 of the remotes on eBay for $50.... Score!

Hey can we get a little more feedback on one issue please?
You say as soon as you pulled off the ground cable it removed the "internal short"? It sounds to me that if removing the cable removed the short that the short was in fact external and not internal?
I wonder about this for two reasons:
- If so the owner is going to have to carefully investigate the cause before re-energizing any electricals
- The battery may not be at fault?
I'd like to hear more about that.

I will explain all to the best of my knowledge. Should be Easy as I installed this battery.

Ok, Back to the scene. When you see a mans bike brand new bike about to burn you act as fast as you can. Keep in mind We are already 30 mins late to the battery exploding scene.

Member here, Beast crossed the highway to help retrieve the bike. So more time has passed. When I get off the phone calling for Bike Limo the boys have the bike across the highway in front of me. What I see is Smoke continuing to pour out. Major Heat is present. Paint is bubbling off. To me, made perfect sense to pull the ground in hopes of some heat relief if the battery was indeed internally shorted.

Did it help ? To be honest I have no clue. But,,,, I could clearly see a hole blow out of the battery. This told me pressure had been already been relieved. Heavy wind told me gas explosion was no longer possible,,,So why not try and save the mans bike ? Helping is a must.

Next question that may come to your mind,,,did I install it correctly ? To answer question best see pics. Impossible to do wrong, even if your not all that bright.

With this battery positive to the front, ground from the back separated by stock bent clip to the top running through stock separation cover. Pics tell all.

In my opinion, these batteries blow when receiving constant charge.

Last one here blew up on the Dyno,,, So if you going for a long trip,,,,,, Well my view is this batt won't take constant state of charge for long,,, or any longer than six months of use. You decide.

What's really going on with these batteries is not my say. I am only telling you guys in the hopes you don't suffer the same.

This could have been much much worse. Remember bike completely died in heavy flow of traffic at 80mph. I dont mean slowed down, it was bang, all Dead, find a safe spot, busy highway with cars and trucks up your ass. This bike slows quick with No electrics.

Oh Dude,

I wasn't questioning your competence, your actions or your ability to install a battery. Kudos to you for helping your friend, that was well above the call of duty.

Mate my only cause to wonder was whether it was the battery or the bike, nothing further than that.

From your second description as you say it sounds more like the battery and these things aren't noted for electrical shorts.

I think I will heed your advice and stay with old school wet cell batteries for now.

You did well for your friend, I'd like to think if I was in his situation I would have someone like you around to back me up.

Also by these things I mean ZX-14 not the battery.

Did not mean to question your actions at all.

The battery may not be at fault?

That clearly means I'm at Fault. Also means you have to explain to me how, so I can learn from my mistakes.

In my defense, the Positive is clearly insulated From the Negative. If you know this bike and it's cables you also know this bikes ground(negative)cable has a bent clip crimped on Which brings cable high and to the right of the positive. Top cover has a guide trough to also seperate. Even the rubber strap helps separate the two.

Yet, you do Now Most definitely Have My Undivided Attention. Please, do tell what you are thinking.

I went back to pictures looking for a Exact date of install.

Also by these things I mean ZX-14 not the battery.
Did not mean to question your actions at all.

Sorry Teef, my back hair was standing straight up. My Bad.

Don't install lithium batteries in motorcycles. Slightest hiccup in the charging circuit and they get hot and smoke.

Next question that may come to your mind,,,did I install it correctly ? To answer question best see pics. Impossible to do wrong, even if your not all that bright.

Mine has reversed poles and is half the size of the battery Shorai recommends for the 14. Oh for cryin out loud, I've installed mine normal, backward (so the + cable would face out, removed OEM faster equipment....it's just too elementary for anyone with minimal wrenching experience to screw up. Bolt the + cable to + and the - cable to minus. If it starts, you did everything perfectly correct. I would rule out improper installation. If mine's proper (even using a too small battery that has reversed poles), there's no way yours could be anything but PROPER. It was something wrong with the battery. If it was the charging system, something would have happened with the OEM battery. Easy to test. Throw a lead acid in there and see what happens. If it runs normally, there was definitely a problem with the Antigravity.

Thread on lithium battery problems: http://badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/142838/721535.html?1379407559

Highlights:

"Due to Shorai's shortcuts, they don't take too kindly to overvoltage conditions, like when your VR starts acting up. A lead battery can take some abuse, a lithium will ignite if it doesn't have a bypass. Desert_Bird had that happen to him while traveling through Mexico, luckly the battery failed in that case without going up in flames."

"My Shorai DID melt down in the middle of the mountains on Mex 131 between Oaxaca City and Puerto Escondido, leaving me completely stranded. I was lucky to have pulled over at the first hiccup instead of trying my luck and risk sending my ass up in flames. It was due to an intermittent VR short that I diagnosed much later. Shorai couldn't handle the overcharge situation the way lead batteries can. Imho, may be a sell with a flawlessly functioning electrical system. But electric gremlins abound in my machine so I wouldn't want to risk it again. They were supposed to have worked that problem out in subsequent improved models via dedicated overcharge circuitry and cell balancing gizmos. Though this wasn't my experience with an updated unit. I realize the faulty logic in assuming the system would (ever) work with a failing VR, but for me that extra 10 pounds of lead is worth a ton of peace of mind. That said, Shorai were upstanding about sending a new unit out (which got me to Panama before failing!) then finally refunding my money."

* Last updated by: extrapolator on 10/15/2015 @ 10:02 AM *

In the OP's case I was very confident from his first post that the bike wouldn't have gotten as far as he did if he installed it incorrectly. There is certainly no way he reversed it.

Ever since a LiPO of LiFe offering for scooters hit the market I've had misgivings surrounding whether the charging system could support the storage device.

If my Optimate 6 is incompatible with lithium architecture then how can I expect Ninjee's charging system to accommodate it?

Lead-acid is where it's @.

I've got Lithium in both my 14 and H2...and in the past Kawi's I've had.Never had an issue.I use the Shorai charger on my H2...but honestly have only used it a couple of times maintaining the charge.

Question...IF there was a short to ground somewhere else besides the negative terminal,say,up the line against the frame or something...if that intermittantly shorted there...would it immediately cause the stator to increase it's output?And if it did...and the short was long enough,could it be possible the overcharging stator(trying to keep up with the 'loss' at the short) would create a high voltage condition IF the short was to stop momentarily?Running the overcharge into the battery?IDK...just wondering.

Or does the stator ONLY put out a certain amount no matter what?

The output of the alternator increases proportionally with engine speed.

It's the responsibility of the rectifier/regulator to sense the demand of the electrical system and admit only enough energy to sustain all the electrically driven components.