https://youtu.be/34CcNkMJX_A

..."I GUESS"...;)

ASSIST?

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 11/29/2015 @ 11:12 AM *

Lets not forget the middle leg of religion slide up some poor child's rear end. A house of perverts to assemble and circle jerk in the name of the stick man. LOL... yes, very uplifting is lift up her skirt and oh look, pre-pubic-essence ... and was there not someone in the news the other day was a 'man of the cloth' raping some child as in the legacy presented?

The perpetual lure of the gay handed down from one century to another and the perversion, the money the pope hides to feed the starving? No, but to spruce up the offices. It just shows you how sick the followers are and continue to monetarily feed the penis-cult.

Sure sounds like some sick perpetual push to keep the myth flowing out the end of a penis, down the leg of some poor child. You sick motherfuckers! And you wonder why I hate mankind.

Hub this one's really simple. God will not control someone and violate their free-will. Even a Christian church full of child molesters and those at the top know about it God cannot control those people and make them stop. Those people have free will.

The church is no different from any other sect of society, a lot of great people and a lot of corrupt people. Same with cops, politicians, employers, government, etc.

Maybe another way to look at it is as religious "leaders" perhaps these people are targeted spiritually more so than others? Someone who believes as I do, understands that there's no reason to attack someone who doesn't have faith anyway. But then if you have someone who wants to lead people to Christ, who better to fight and attack spiritually than these very people? Remember, God won't act in certain ways because the rules He made are his own. No one says that others have to play by the same rules.

"We finally saw that faith in some kind of God
was a part of our make-up,
just as much as the feeling we have for a friend.
Sometimes we had to SEARCH FEARLESSLY,
but He was there.
He was as much a fact as we were.
We found the Great Reality deep down within us"...quote from another source..

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 11/29/2015 @ 11:33 AM *

Ah Vicky boy.
Classic.

You cannot even answer an incredibly simple question.
You dodge and dodge and dodge.

In my last question to you, I did not ask you to prove the existence of God? I already know you and every other person in this world cannot do that.
That is no mystery at all.
That my friend is fact.
The mystery to me is why dedicate your life to something that you admit you cannot prove and may not be real?

But again...
I asked you to tell me something good that religion has done that mankind alone could not have.
Surely an easy question to answer if you have dedicated your life to its benefits?
Don't dodge again please Vic.
It's getting tiresome.

"God cannot control those people and make them stop."
Ah bingo Vic.

Thanyou for pointing out to all those reading that your God is not God.
You're key words.
"GOD CANNOT"...
Again, your words, not mine.
If God cannot anything he is not God...

But hey, let me let you off the hook a little and say I'm wrong and your God does exist and he actually can...
See how simply you defend your Lord when a child being raped, especially by one of his followers, is all part of his plan and that he will not assist?
Will not assist is infinitely worse than cannot assist so I guess I didn't let you off after all...
Again, if you saw a small helpless child being raped and could stop it, would you?
If you wouldn't, fuck you, your dead heart and your moral less view of humanity and the world.
If you told me you didn't stop it because you were allowing the rapist his free will, his right to freedom of choice and action, I'd probably punch you in the face...
And if you found out I could have stopped that child from being raped and didn't, you'd think exactly the same thing of me.

Well guess what? It's what your God does every single day!
No if's. No but's.
Day in, and day out.
But oh no no no.
It's okay when God allows it and doesn't intervene.
I mean he's God right?
He is allowing the rapist his free will, his human freedom of choice and action.
He works in mysterious ways.
And you and others followers accept it all with reasoning such as "Who knows Gods plan" and "Who are we to question God?"
God's will is far more important than the innocent child's rights huh?
God. The one you can't prove remember...

It is simply morally reprehensible to accept this, no matter what your belief is.

But my favorite...

"And you're rigth about Yannih being defensive, I definitely see the same thing in his arguments."

Oh you made me laugh there Vicky. I had to hold my sides for that one.
My whole argument is based on the fact that yourself and others that believe cannot prove the existence of God but still worship him anyway. A fairly logical and understandable quandrum I would have thought no matter what your beliefs or intellect.
You respond with a bunch of what if's, could be's, it's possible and I just believe.
No concrete evidence at all.
Just faith.
I am expected to believe and understand this.
But when I question it, I am being defensive.
Not enquiring, not using the freedom your God apparently gave me to ask, not seeking information and understanding.
I'm just defensive.

Oh man. Gold. Pure unadulterated gold.

Thankyou for the humor and hypocrisy Vic.
And thankyou for proving so many points for me here also.
Much appreciated...

* Last updated by: yannih on 11/29/2015 @ 2:00 PM *

---

Yanmaster says"The mystery to me is why dedicate your life to something(...)"

I see it more like a 'partnership' in a sense.Dedication?Yes...at some level.But the partnership produces the dedication.I mean...that's how I kinda see it.I can choose to back away from it anytime I want.But I just don't want to.If(for me)it was some slogans or something like that...I wouldn't really FEEL compelled to keep trusting.But for me it's way more than that.I don't think anyone can really categorize 'feelings' with something tangible.It's an experience...like loving a child or a spouse.Or a friend.Once a person 'feels' something...it becomes 'real' to em.The experience that brought on the feelings.

This is what I feel having accepted this "GOD" in my life.A connection.A feeling.I can't take it out and look at it.I FEEL it.And it's not just that either.When I do ask for whatever...I get answers back.I do.Either.."No'..."I will"...or..."wait..maybe later,see how I handle this first".I didn't have that before I accepted this "GOD".So for me...He's real.Before I accepted...I couldn't possibly see a different way.He's the one that revealed Himself to me.I didn't create it or make it happen.This I know for myself.And this is what confirms what's been written(in the Bible).It lines up perfectly.For me.

Jesus said.."{the Spirit]shall be with you,and He shall guide you unto all truth.For whatsoever He hears from God(being God's spirit),He shall show you"."He shall be within you.When you walk to the right or left,He shall say...'this is the way,walk this way'".I have to say...this has definitely been fact for me.I don't see it...I hear it.I feel it.The physical world shows it to me.That's just a small part of all of it.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 11/29/2015 @ 1:42 PM *

Green, I cannot debate your feelings.
They are yours and no one else's.
If this is what you feel, you should follow it.
I accept this.

But my points on child rape and your God allowing it as per my comments above.
I do not bring this up to be disrespectful.
I bring it up to try and understand how you internally square this away within yourself.

Your thoughts?

---

A society only consist of individual people. A group of people is no more right than an individual. I'm sure you'll disagree with that statement.

It's not who's right and who's wrong. Clearly from this discussion there is no answer to that. It's whoever has the most power. Usually there is strength in numbers and the largest group often wins so it is the common values of the majority that dictate the rules. that doesn't mean the rules can't be broken if someone wants to go against the grain. Any individual can do that but there will be some sort of price be it people thinking you're weird (I suffer this all the time) to being executed. This is high school Sociology 101 stuff.

Throughout history a society has made up it's mind another society should be eliminated.

Yes, thank God (there I go, Grn) I'm in a society that was the eliminator and not the eliminatee...so far, anyway. As mentioned before, a whole society's moral standards can do a 180 and that is pretty much what has happened in the past as the result of war, colonization and empire building. Not pretty but that's how it goes. ..or went anyway.

But this is OK BY YOU. Because by you we are just animated electromechanical rocks in which other than eating, shitting, and fucking and maybe some really lame attempts at pleasure if society says so then it must be right.

So far, I haven't had ample cause to rebel against the establishment. Not everything is exactly how I think it should be but the basic moral standards that we have are fine. Being a member of the group requires sacrificing some personal standards. At least you are allowed to try to change society but good luck on that one if you're on your own. As far as supporting the destruction of other cultures, well, all I can say is that I'm not about to sign up for giving North America back to the Indians. Sorry Indians, I'm sure it sucked for your ancestors to have been conquered. That's life. It coulda gone the other way and we'd all be having a very different conversation right now. But since it went how it went, join the group a little...and I think most do..though there is a lasting tragedy to Europeans taking over NA. That's life man. Could happen again.

The scale doesn't matter, it's still just one person's "morals" against another's. A society is still only a person. If everyone as a society determined that you (Rook) should be put to death would that make it right? No, what that's called is "

Well, that's happened a number of times. Not to me, to prisoners who were executed and later found not guilty. Part of life. Sometimes it sucks. NO I don't want it to happen to me any more than I want any of the other things that suck to have happened to me...but if it does, I guess I will have to deal with it like everything else. It's not a perfect world. Believing in God or not won't make it perfect either.

I'm not seeing that society can be a single person. You can have personal ethics that conflict with group ethics but it's asking for trouble if you live by them. I guess in the end we decide if the trouble is worse than sacrificing our personal ethics. I for one still want to speed even though I know most people think it's crazy and I should get a ticket or worse.

it's to make a point that either we have basic human rights based on a higher power, or we don't and life is utterly pointless

We are supposed to. I am not so sure those rights are entirely based upon what a higher power considers applicable but it just so happens to be pretty close to what I would expect God to want for us. I don't think most nonbelievers would argue that Christian values are bad but why must they be attributed to God?...they are called "human rights" after all; not Christian rights. Anyway, life would not be pointless without human rights. The point would then be to get human rights. If ISIS comes over here and takes over God forbid (--did it again), I'm not giving up.

That's the basis as understanding every person's life is valuable and they have the basic human right to exist.

We would hope but not all humans should be allowed to exist. ISIS comes to mind again. I'd wipe those fuckers out without pause and I could care less about their culture. I know they feel the same about us. Someone is going to win in this and someone is going to lose. Way it goes. May it go in our favor because we are right for us and they are wrong for us.

If you believe we are nothing but animated electromechanical rocks and when it's "lights out" everything we know and and experienced ceases then who cares if someone kidnaps you and chops your arms, legs, and head off.

that is true. IF. How many of us believe we are inanimate objects without purpose? I sure don't. Not believing there is a God I not a deal changer for me. All the things I felt strongly about as a Christian are still just as important. I dunno, maybe I was not a good enough Christian but my values have stayed pretty much the same.

It's not like after the act is over, you're left in eternal pain. You have no pain, you have no joy, you have no existence..

That's true. After I'm dead, nothing matters to me. Heck, I don't exist anymore.

At that very point how you lived or died had no point at all, you never existed anyway.

Yes, at that point. All the time I was alive my life was pretty important, though. Right now is what counts. that's all there is but it's still pretty damn good. Heck, I'll take it over the alternative which is to be dead right now. Being dead ends all the fun.

What happens to you personally or impersonally, is inconsequential because at some point there will be no one to remember anyway.

True but what do I care if I'm dead? I care about being alive. This being remembered is great but it's not the point of living.

If the only value of your life comes from another person, then you have no value at all because another person could say your completely invaluable

But they don't right now and that's why I'm happy. If this was the case right now, yes, life would be pretty pointless if nobody else placed any value on my life. I still do not think I would want to die. I can see how a person may wish to end their life if they have no hope of ever having purpose. that's sad. glad I'm not tlike that.

The church is no different from any other sect of society, a lot of great people and a lot of corrupt people. Same with cops, politicians, employers, government, etc.

Good GOD (said it again!) I hope corruption is not as common in the general public as child molestation is in the church. I do not think you have a sure fire chance of being molested by a priest but the chances are better for sure....at least I hope that is the case. I happen to know of two priests from my former congregation who were child molesters. that's about 2 out of 5 or six in the last twenty years. Hope 2 out of 5 bank tellers are not child molestors.

---

You know...this really is a difficult impasse.It is...and worth considering.I cannot claim to have an answer on this.I don't.I can only say...that man is doing this.His will.His ideas on life and it's value.Of course,I believe God could stop this all.I don't hate God for allowing it.I just don't.If God stepped in(and does continuously throughout the world)and somehow just STOPPED all of it...that would be fantastically awesome.

Look back on the days of Noah.(if one believes in a Noah and all).He warned people...then He acted.Again...no one alive KNOWS what sort of 'evil' people were doing.I'd venture to say...probably very close if not worse to what's going on right now.He did step in.And yet...here we are today.Did man learn anything?Apparently because God doesn't just 'step in' and remove the 'wicked' from civilization,people think there is no God.Seeing that a 'loving God' could never allow this.

God AGAIN stepped in and sent His Son to wipe the record clean.Gave man a choice...AGAIN.God is screaming.."THIS IS THE WAY...walk in it,and I shall be with you".Still man rejects.Mankind will be responsible for what's happening.He gave 'free-will' so this could be accomplished.God gives each person a choice.He didn't desire robots.He wanted something created in His image.He didn't want more Angels.He wanted His 'crowning glory' to be here.Reflecting His attributes.If we here want these things to stop...then it has to stop with us.God is not going to 'clean up the mess'.No more than someone would continuously clean up a child's blunders when they reach a certain time in their growing.

The action isn't on God...He's supplied all the tools.The action is on us.That's very hard for some people to grasp.This idea that the world's like it is because we've allowed it to be.

Maybe think on this...you have a great bike.You love it.You take care of it.If at some point you decided to stop working on it,it started falling apart,would it be right to say.."Hey...they built it...they should come here to my home and fix it".I think I can see the ridiculousness of this mindset.

They're NOT gonna come to my house.I have to DO something.

Human suffering and such is no where comparable to a motorcycle.But the concept of it is virtually the same.We don't want to do what's necessary to produce the 'fix' on our bike.We can continuously say.."It's Kawasaki's fault.They knew it could break...so it's really their fault".

This is really no different in thinking as it relates to our 'concept' of God.We want Him to do it all..fix everything.Make it a perfect world.He's saying..."I love you...but if you want things to be different...I'll help you...but I won't do all of it for you".Same as when your child does things,and you draw a line and say.."This is YOUR deal...you need to clean this up".You love em...but you also know that just coming to the rescue will NOT build character and strength to deal with life's issues..or being truly open to the possibilities of...GIVING BACK.This is the fair God.The loving God.We see the outcome of 'taking responsibility' in our lives.We feel better.We acknowledge our weaknesses.We strive for 'getting it right'.We listen to our teachers.We do what they say...and we feel better about ourselves...and each other.God stepping in and 'doing all this' for us would NOT produce the very character attributes we so strongly desire.God KNOWS we have feelings.He's honoring those feelings by allowing us to participate in His will.He doesn't have to.

It's one thing to have someone say.."Hey,you did a great job".It's something totally different when WE can say to ourselves.."Hey,you did a great job".We couldn't experience that by just being told.We have to live it..for ourselves.Which in turn creates MORE good feelings about ourselves and others.

There will be a time ahead when God will stop all this stuff.Not in our lifetime probably...but He will.He said He would."I shall create a NEW heaven and a NEW earth"."The old things are passed away...behold..I make all things new again".It's gonna happen.Whether I believe it or not.

Probably a pretty lame way of trying to answer your question.I can't honestly say why He allows certain things to occur.But I do know that I can do my part to assure these things DON'T occur in MY life and those that come in contact with me.If each person did this...guess what?We'd have that 'perfect world' we so want.It's not on God.It's on us.

He DOES supply the courage to change things.He does supply the help and things needed to accomplish great things.He does.We miss out and blame Him when it doesn't work out 'our way'.This isn't God's fault.It doesn't make Him a monster.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 11/29/2015 @ 2:38 PM *

I don't think it's possible for someone to get a 'God is Love' concept towards God UNTIL he's become willing to lay aside his OWN concept of the Morality and reality of God...and say to himself..."okay,here's the deal...I'm pissed over this,over that.I don't believe in this God thing.Not one bit.I think you(God,if you exist)are a harsh,pain inflicting being that gets a charge out of watching YOUR creation suffer.BUT...I'm going to temporarily suspend my own judgements of you,and ask...IF you are real...help me to believe in you.I'm not saying I'll commit to you.I'm just asking...ARE YOU THERE?"

I guarantee...you WILL get an answer...if you're willing to listen.And I don't mean.."Some overpowering megaphone response"...OR a WHITE LIGHT or something.

Inside your heart...honestly before him...waiting.He WILL speak to you.But you need to be willing to listen.God doesn't mind 'arguments'.Argue all you want with what he's saying.He's okay with all that.If you honestly want to know the truth about God...he will meet you where you're at(unlike Kawasaki!;) ).Anytime..anywhere...day or night.In struggle or peace.He's NOT limited.

This is long, but it is a good read :

Full Article Here

What are those points of light? Let me go through five of them that I’ve personally found helpful whenever I’ve been prompted to ask the question, “Why?” The first point of light: God is not the creator of evil and suffering.

This answers the question you hear so often: “Why didn’t God merely create a world where tragedy and suffering didn’t exist?” The answer is: He did! Genesis 1:31 says: “God saw all that he had made, and it was very good.”

But if God is not the author of tragedy or evil or death, where did they come from? Well, God has existed from eternity past as the Father, Son and Spirit, together in a relationship of perfect love. So love is the highest value in the universe. And when God decided to create human beings, he wanted us to experience love. But to give us the ability to love, God had to give us free will to decide whether to love or not to love. Why? Because love always involves a choice.

If we were programmed to say, “I love you,” it wouldn’t really be love. When my daughter was little, she had a doll with a string in the back, and when you pulled it the doll said, “I love you.” Did that doll love my daughter? Of course not. It was programmed to say those words. To really experience love, that doll would need to have been able to choose to love or not to love. Again – real love always involves a choice.

So in order for us to experience love, God bestowed on us free will. But unfortunately, we humans have abused our free will by rejecting God and walking away from Him. And that has resulted in the introduction of two kinds of evil into the world: moral evil and natural evil.

Moral evil is the immorality and pain and suffering and tragedy that come because we choose to be selfish, arrogant, uncaring, hateful and abusive. Romans 3:23 says “All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.”

So much of the world’s suffering results from the sinful action or inaction of ourselves and others. For example, people look at a famine and wonder where God is, but the world produces enough food for each person to have 3,000 calories a day. It’s our own irresponsibility and self-centeredness that prevents people from getting fed.

In other words: look at your hand. You can choose to use that hand to hold a gun and shoot someone, or you can use it to feed hungry people. It’s your choice. But it’s unfair to shoot someone and then blame God for the existence of evil and suffering. Like that old cartoon said: “We have seen the enemy, and he is us.”

The second kind of evil is called natural evil. These are things like wildfires, earthquakes, tornadoes and hurricanes that cause suffering for people. But these, too, are the indirect result of sin being allowed into the world. As one author explained: “When we humans told God to shove off, He partially honored our request. Nature began to revolt. The earth was cursed. Genetic breakdown and disease began. Pain and death became part of the human experience.”

The Bible says it’s because of sin that nature was corrupted and “thorns and thistles” entered the world. Romans 8:22 says, “We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time.” In other words, nature longs for redemption to come and for things to be set right. That’s the source of disorder and chaos.

Let’s make this crystal clear once more: God did not create evil and suffering. Now, it’s true that he did create the potential for evil to enter the world, because that was the only way to create the potential for genuine goodness and love. But it was human beings, in our free will, who brought that potential evil into reality.

Some people ask, “Couldn’t God have foreseen all of this?” And no doubt he did. But look at it this way: many of you are parents. Even before you had children, couldn’t you foresee that there was the very real possibility they may suffer disappointment or pain or heartache in life, or that they might even hurt you and walk away from you? Of course — but you still had kids. Why? Because you knew there was also the potential for tremendous joy and deep love and great meaning.

Now, the analogy is far from perfect, but think about God. He undoubtedly knew we’d rebel against Him, but He also knew many people would choose to follow Him and have a relationship with Him and spend eternity in heaven with Him — and it was all worth it for that, even though it would cost His own Son great pain and suffering to achieve their redemption.

So, first, it helps me to remember, as I ponder the mystery of pain and evil, that God did not create them. The second point of light is this: Though suffering isn’t good, God can use it to accomplish good.

He does this by fulfilling His promise in Romans 8:28: “And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.”

Notice that the verse doesn’t say God causes evil and suffering, just that he promises to cause good to emerge. And notice that the verse doesn’t say we all will see immediately or even in this life how God has caused good to emerge from a bad circumstance. Remember, we only see things dimly in this world. And notice that God doesn’t make this promise to everyone. He makes the solemn pledge that he will take the bad circumstances that befall us and cause good to emerge if we’re committed to following Him.

The Old Testament gives us a great example in the story of Joseph, who went through terrible suffering, being sold into slavery by his brothers, unfairly accused of a crime and falsely imprisoned. Finally, after a dozen years, he was put in a role of great authority where he could save the lives of his family and many others.

This is what he said to his brothers in Genesis 50:20: “You intended to harm me, but God intended it for good to accomplish what is now being done, the saving of many lives.” And if you’re committed to God, He promises that He can and will take whatever pain you’re experiencing and draw something good from it.

You might say, “No, he can’t in my circumstance. The harm was too great, the damage was too extreme, the depth of my suffering has been too much. No, in my case there’s no way God can cause any good to emerge.”

But if you doubt God’s promise, listen to what a wise man said to me when I was researching my book The Case for Faith: God took the very worst thing that has ever happened in the history of the universe — deicide, or the death of God on the cross — and turned it into the very best thing that has happened in history of universe: the opening up of heaven to all who follow Him. So if God can take the very worst circumstance imaginable and turn it into the very best situation possible, can he not take the negative circumstances of your life and create something good from them?

He can and He will. God can use our suffering to draw us to Himself, to mold and sharpen our character, to influence others for Him – He can draw something good from our pain in a myriad of ways…if we trust and follow Him.

Now, the third point of light: The day is coming when suffering will cease and God will judge evil.

A lot of times you’ll hear people say: “If God has the power to eradicate evil and suffering, then why doesn’t He do it?” And the answer is that because He hasn’t done it yet doesn’t mean He won’t do it. You know, I wrote my first novel last year. What if someone read only half of it and then slammed it down and said, “Well, Lee did a terrible job with that book. There are too many loose ends with the plot. He didn’t resolve all the issues with the characters.” I’d say, “Hey – you only read half the book!”

And the Bible says that the story of this world isn’t over yet. It says the day will come when sickness and pain will be eradicated and people will be held accountable for the evil they’ve committed. Justice will be served in a perfect way. That day will come, but not yet.

So what’s holding God up? One answer is that some of you may be. He’s actually delaying the consummation of history in anticipation that some of you will still put your trust in Him and spend eternity in heaven. He’s delaying everything out of His love for you. SecondPeter 3:9 says: “The Lord is not slow in keeping His promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.”To me, that’s evidence of a loving God, that He would care that much for you.

Point of Light #4: Our suffering will pale in comparison to what God has in store for his followers.

I certainly don’t want to minimize pain and suffering, but it helps if we take a long-term perspective. Look at this verse, and remember they were written by the apostle Paul, who suffered through beatings and stonings and shipwrecks and imprisonments and rejection and hunger and thirst and homelessness and far more pain that most of us will ever have to endure. These are his words:

Second Corinthians 4:17: “For our light and momentary troubles” — wait a second: light and momentary troubles? Five different times his back was shredded when he was flogged 39 lashes with a whip; three times he was beaten to a bloody pulp by rods. But he says, “For our light and momentary troubles are achieving for us an eternal glory that far outweighs them all.”

Paul also wrote Romans 8:18: “I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us.”

Think of it this way. Let’s say that on the first day of 2012, you had an awful, terrible day. You had an emergency root canal at the dentist and the ran out of pain-killers. You crashed your car and had no insurance. Your stock portfolio took a nosedive. Your spouse got sick. A friend betrayed you. From start to finish, it was like the title of that children’s book: Alexander & the Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad Day.

But then every other day of the year was just incredibly terrific. Your relationship with God is close and real and intimate. A friend wins the lottery and gives you $100 million. You get promoted at work to your dream job. Time magazine puts your photo on its cover as “The Person of the Year.” You have your first child and he’s healthy and strong. Your marriage is idyllic, your health is fabulous, you have a six-month vacation in Tahiti.

Then next New Year’s Day someone asks, “So, how was your 2012?” You’d say, “It was great; it was wonderful!” And they’d say, “But didn’t it start out bad? Didn’t you go through a lot of trouble that first day?”

You’d think back and say, “You’re right. That was a bad day, no denying it. It was difficult at the time. It was hard. It was painful. But when I look at the totality of the year, when I put everything in context, it’s been a great year. The 364 terrific days far outweigh the one bad day. That day just sort of fades away.”

And maybe that’s a good analogy for heaven. Listen to me – that is not to deny the reality of your pain in this life. It might be terrible. It might be chronic. My wife Leslie has a medical condition that puts her in pain every single day. Maybe you’re suffering from a physical ailment or heartache at this very moment. But in heaven, after 354,484,545 days of pure bliss — and with an infinite more to come — if someone asked, “So, how has your existence been?”, you’d instantly react by saying, “It has been absolutely wonderful! Words can’t describe the joy and the delight and the fulfillment!”

And if they said, “But didn’t you have a tough time before you got here,” you’d probably think back and say, “Well, yes, it’s true that those days were painful, I can’t deny that. They were difficult, they were bad. But when I put them into context, in light of all God’s outpouring of goodness to me, those bad days aren’t even worth comparing with the eternity of blessings and joy that I’m experiencing.”

It’s like the story that British church leader Galvin Reid tells about meeting a young man who had fallen down a flight of stairs as a baby and shattered his back. He had been in and out of hospitals his whole life — and yet he made the astounding comment that he thinks God is fair. Reid asked him, “How old are you?” The boy said, “Seventeen.” Reid asked, “How many years have you spend in hospitals?” The boy said, “Thirteen years.” The pastor said with astonishment, “And you think that is fair?” And the boy replied: “Well, God has all eternity to make it up to me.”

And He will. God promises a time when there will be no more crying, no more tears, no more pain and suffering, when we will be reunited with God in perfect harmony, forever. Let the words of First Corinthians 2:9 soak into your soul: “No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him.” That’s absolutely breath-taking, isn’t it?

Finally, Point of Light #5: We decide whether to turn bitter or turn to God for peace and courage.

We’ve all seen examples of how the same suffering that causes one person to turn bitter, to reject God, to become hard and angry and sullen, can cause another person to turn to God, to become more gentle and more loving and more tender, willing to reach out to compassionately help other people who are in pain. Some who lose a child to a drunk driver turn inward in chronic rage and never-ending despair; another turns outward to help others by founding Mothers Against Drunk Drivers.

As one philosopher said: “I believe all suffering is at least potential good, an opportunity for good. It’s up to our free choice to actualize that potential. Not all of us benefit from suffering and learn from it, because that’s up to us, it’s up to our free will.”

We make the choice to either run away from God or to run to Him. But what happens if we run to Him?

I started this talk with part of what Jesus said in John 16:33. Now let me give you the entire verse: “I have told you these things so that in me you may have peace. You will have suffering in this world. But be courageous! I have conquered the world.”

In other words, He offers us the two very things we need when we’re hurting: peace to deal with our present and courage to deal with our future. How? Because he has conquered the world! Through His own suffering and death, He has deprived this world of its ultimate power over you. Suffering doesn’t have the last word anymore. Death doesn’t have the last word anymore. God has the last word!

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SWEET!I needed that.Thanks Cara...yer awesome!

The 'unfortunate' side to all this is though...look how rejection keeps a soul from receiving all the GOOD stuff...that's the 'sad' part to this...and it's terribly sad with God(I think).I could imagine at some level He's totally heartbroken that some would choose to eat scraps when there's a HUGE feast just one step away.And I do believe He's CONSTANTLY trying to bring others along to the feast.Every second of every hour.Wouldn't WE if we were the servers to our friends?I think so.

And some would say...'there IS no God'.

It's pretty clear to me that God is speaking and sharing right here on this lil ole forum on this lil ole planet.

I don't hear any megaphones or see any lightning bolts...but I've NO doubt He's talking right out loud.

It's pretty amazing when ya realize...when Christ was preaching in the Acroplis and such...He never needed a Microphone to get His messages clearly across to EVERY individual there.He even fed em lunch.Free of charge no less;)

Win/Win if ya ask me

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 11/29/2015 @ 3:36 PM *

Sorry guy's but after reading all of that I simply give up.
This is not worth doing for me anymore after some of the insane points and absolutely useless analogies presented above.

I will respond for the very last time and then no more.

Free will. No good without evil. No love without choice. Man is not perfect. Hardship and pain will be miraculously rewarded afterwards.

With each and everyone of these non provable points you are actually justifying acts like infants being raped.
The true horror of religion.
Plus morally reprehensible.
The acceptance of innocents suffering under the name of God and under his banner.

One innocent child suffering in pain and agony is a tragedy.
Thousands of innocent children suffering in pain and agony is infinitely worse.
Standing by and not acting when you have the power to prevent this is a palpable evil sin.

God sits idly with indifference while children are sexually violated, starve, are born with horrific diseases, and does nothing to intervene.
I dont give a shit about his plans, I dont give a shit what might happen afterwards in his supposed afterlife and I don't give a shit who is responsible.

If it is in his power to stop this, then fucking stop it!

But you believers justify it as a greater plan or the choice he has given us or all will be squared away later because your God is perfect in everyway and couldnt possibly be responsible!
And thats if he exists at all which none of you can prove!

Your God is evil if he allows one child to needlessly suffer in pain when he could have stopped it.
Not to mention the agony and distress the parents and families then experience when their young kin are so affected.
I hope they don't waste their time praying because apparently God has a plan and if anyone including less fortunate suffering children get in the way, well too bad.

Keep defending your God even though there is untold horrific suffering in this world happening every second.
Remember he chooses to let it continue unabated!

And you still find it in yourselves to worship this monster?

Lastly cara, you need to make your religious mind up.

"what you are quoting is probably some rabbinical law from
the OLD COVENANT or OLD TESTAMENT, Christians do NOT believe this"

"The Old Testament gives us a great example in the story of Joseph, who went through terrible suffering, being sold into slavery by his brothers, unfairly accused of a crime and falsely imprisoned. Finally, after a dozen years, he was put in a role of great authority where he could save the lives of his family and many others."

Unbelievable...

Believe what you will and so will I and we will all move on regardless...

* Last updated by: yannih on 11/30/2015 @ 4:33 AM *

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Guy invents the motorcycle. Many are pleased by the device; others are horrified by the fact that some are brutally maimed or killed as a direct result of their interaction with motorcycles. All in all, how should we view the inventor: evil, genius or indifferent?

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Genius.

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Assist:

http://news.yahoo.com/catholic-church-sees-miracle-bleeding-214300669.html
Dis one is for you yannih... Jelly filled hoax with dough ray me fatso latte dough LOL

So is dropping a cookie in water pretty much a routine, or did someone just dunk a wad of dough in water and let it sit there for days> is this a common ritual with thishit? And where does holy water come from? They import that from the nile or someplace around there, or is this just tap water and someone lights a smouldering cup of dry leaves, hooked on a chain and swings it over the that fluoridated filled?

* Last updated by: Hub on 11/29/2015 @ 8:57 PM *

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Sorry guy's but after reading all of that I simply give up.
This is not worth doing for me anymore after some of the insane points and absolutely useless analogies presented above.

I will respond to just one for the very last time and then no more.

Yannihman, it's a force that may not change mankind, which is looking for some answer so they'll come up with another cult to follow down the road. They pretty much accept a heaven and hell, 72 cherries, rives of wine, marlboro buy the carton are free anshit. You'll just frustrate yourself as to how brainwishing these animals think.

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Thanks Hub...;)

BTW, did I mention how the Moors gave it a shot and seems it didn't work out for them is repeating history 101 all over again

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" I am expected to believe and understand this"
I don't think anyone here expects you to believe and understand anything. You obviously have your mind made up. We are just trying to explain how we feel. you're right, you can't answer to how we feel, and that's the point. Try explaining love, or hate. Why do we have these feelings? What is the purpose? There aren't any holes in my stories, because they aren't stories. They are my experiences. I didn't feel like typing for 3 hours with so much detail you couldn't tear them apart. You experience things in sleep that aren't dreams. Have a problem to solve? Think about it before you go to sleep, and the solution comes to you in your sleep. Not a dream, but your brain is still working. Well, mine is anyway. When I backed up from the bar, I took a half step back. There were tables and chairs behind me, so not enough room for him to walk by. Plus I was 6'2" and 220lbs at the time. He was about 5'7" and 175lbs. My buddy was a ways behind me. I have no idea how fast he was going. My point wasn't what he said, but that I survived unscathed. You obviously don't have any respect for my opinions, so I'll let it go. Some people get angry when people don't agree with them, and you seem to lean in that direction. I should have taken the hint when you said people that believe in God have no common sense. Now I feel even more sorry for you than ever.

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Ok, I'm gonna write one more thing, Now, you are probably going to think I'm crazy, BUT I'm not,
the only proof I have of Gods existence, is what my wife saw of Evil, first off, let me tell you
I have been married to her for 33 years, and she has no reason to make this up, anyways, here
goes :

She was in Mexico city with her girl friend on a vacation, she was NOT drunk, or on drugs, and
she was not asleep or dreaming, some "thing" that looked like a black haze, grabbed her by the
neck, and called out her name, even though it was a warm night in Mexico city, the room got really
cold. Also she could not wake up her friend, the "thing" went away when I finally got through
to her on the phone, which I had been trying to get through for many hours and could not.

Do with this what you will, but as stated, she has NO reason to lie about this ...

one last thing, I cannot make you believe in God, anymore than you can make me believe there
is NOT a creator. Take care all, ride safe

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IDK what to say(a first!).I definitely believe there are spiritual beings that interact with the human population(and I don't mean..'aliens'.I've never seen one(a spiritual being) that I can recall(although ONCE,I had an interesting experience in a checkout line).I don't doubt they exist.No more than I don't doubt Satan is real.

Humans really have no idea just how the 'other' side of existence could actually be.The 'unseen'.It's as real as the visible IMO.

Your story of your wife...that sparked this recollection in me.I can't remember what the details were.But it at the time made a very strong('spiritual') impression on me...I remember that.It had something to do with either the 'person' in front of me,or the 'one' behind me.It wasn't the words...it was the fact that the 'interaction' involved something physically happening right there at that moment.I'll try to remember exactly what it was.My reaction to it was...'that had to be an angel(Of God)'.I remember that much.I felt good about it...whatever it was.

It was after I had received Christ into my life...I was like in my 20's.This wasn't something like.."Oh,you don't have enough to pay for that,here,let me help you"...no...it was something much different than that sort of 'good samaritan' thing.It was...here I am in line...this thing happened,I looked behind me to the side,I looked back...this 'person was gone....which couldn't have happened,seeing there were others standing on both sides of me.Believe me...I looked to see where this 'person' had gone."they' just weren't there.And they should have been had they been in that line.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 11/30/2015 @ 3:47 PM *

I'm bowing out too. God Bless those of you that want it, and best of luck to those that don't.

Fortunately for us all we live in a society which abides by God given rights... for now anyway.

* Last updated by: Hub on 11/30/2015 @ 10:49 PM *

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I wish it could be the early 70s again.

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