"'The way to heaven will be narrow but the way to hell will be wide."

Oh sure, screw the fat people.

---

Here's what I don't understand...

... 72 of them there dark eyed things.
... Rivers of wine.
... Little boys for the females.
... A place for us.
... A place for you.
... Kill everything in sight to get there.

The other whackage's culthink...

... Palmslap* on the forehead is clear the boogie man out of you.
... Raise a clown in a suit and hand over money so the Pope and his Penis Pullers
... Don't let me go there.

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https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/analysis-mideast-chaos-violence-wont-end-with-is-defeat/2015/11/23/36643526-91b9-11e5-befa-99ceebcbb272_story.html#

Don'tell me about the red and black ant syndrome between these shittyits, as in, i.e., have been warring with each other and when this empire is gone a 1000 years from now, these shittyits will still be at it. They make their own chaos, tell me America had anything but a blip on the radar with the common turd shittyits.

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If Ben Franklin said it, great. Rook what you're speaking of again is a covenant. Everything I said is backed up Biblically but I don't expect you to understand how or why. What your point is only supported by taking something out of context.

I am certain a Bible scholar would be able to point out quotes that tell believers that they should use their gifts and that they should be productive and proactive. Still, the main message of the Bible is that God is in control and not people. If a Christian helps himself, he's doing it by asking for and depending on God's guidance. In this case there's no question about what came first the chicken or the egg. Everything comes from God, men do nothing on their own except evil...according to the Bible.

I know there is a small chip on my shoulder because I feel I have been let down by my faith. It can be pretty hard to not share my views when the topic comes up. Hopefully, all believers cab accept my disbelief because I accept their believing. If a prayer is said, I'm sure not going refuse to participate. I don't want to interfere with anyone's spirituality.

Is it anti-Christian to disbelieve or even to question?

---

"Is it anti-Christian to disbelieve or even to question?"...it's HUMAN.The fact that you say you have a small chip on your shoulder tells me you DO believe at some level...if only a little.Which IMO..is a good thing .

"Everything comes from God, men do nothing on their own except evil...according to the Bible".Well...not quite.

The term 'evil' and 'good' in this context is...we are all born into sin...that doesn't mean we always or can only do 'sin'.It's a state of separation from God.Not that God isn't right where we are.But acceptance of His Son and His sacrifice opens a new dimension(Spirit) of living WITH God.He's no longer on the 'outside'.But non-christians and others do wonderful loving things all their lives.Only God knows what will be for them.This really is the big debate anyway...whether 'good people' will be taken into heaven(trying to get there without following the manual 'instructions').I honestly don't know.But I'm definitely NOT sorry I personally accepted Christ.I'm not the judge.I do believe God blesses each person in their lives.All their lives.Unseen,or openly.I would say...non-believers just don't truly see this...if they do...They don't end up being non-believers all their lives.I think I can say that with some assurance.I think the truth about this is..if a person is even 'contemplating' anything about God or 'spiritual things involving a possibility of God's existence'...God is speaking to em.That's my opinion.They don't need to be 'saved' or whatever to have God talk to em.

Here's something to think on.NONE of the people,including the 'thief on the cross' were 'saved'.Yet Christ(God's representative on earth)performed nothing but good towards them.He ate with em...talked with em.Lived with em.Could they receive the good?Of course they did.It's no different now.He's not changed anything.He still talks,walks and does good to people.'Saved' or not.

And just because someone claims to be a Christian doesn't mean they won't stumble OR even BE one.God knows who's for real and who isn't.Non believers can do good,just as 'Christians' can be 'evil'.God knows what's going on.He sorts it out at the end.And it isn't simply.."I do good stuff,I get a reward"(maybe person does?)...It's a personal inside job....works have nothing to do with it...though they end up showing...they can't help but happen.But not always 'perfectly'.There is no 'perfect'...only Christ and God.He knows this...and doesn't judge by our seeming 'failures'.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 11/23/2015 @ 9:18 AM *

NONE of the "Holy Books' ,whether the Bible or the Quaran was written by a Supreme Being. They were all written by men, and they all fall prey to men putting their own biases and fears into them. I'll believe in a God if and when I see him at the Pearly Gates, or turnstile, or HOV lane. Whatever....

Mad

---

But on another note, on my ride Saturday, I saw Jesus so many times I started using him as a braking marker...

Mad

---

"I saw Jesus so many times I started using him as a braking marker"...God works in mysterious waysLOL!."His ways are past finding out"....love it!;)

"I'll believe in a God if and when I see him at the Pearly Gates"...I'd only say..why wait.There's a whole lifetime of good stuff ahead for ya...that's like someone offering a Ferrari to ya free of charge...yet you wanna put it off for what?Just sayin'.

As for 'men writing the Bible'...true.But the TRUTH is vividly there.That completely supersedes the 'human' aspect of it.

Even someone who doesn't believe in it as God's word can't escape the precepts of it's core.The world's FULL of it's precepts.There's a reason for that.And it's not because of man.

Man wrote the Kawasaki service manual...but the 'facts' remain about taking care of the bike...refuse to follow it...the bike won't perform or whatever as well.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 11/23/2015 @ 9:31 AM *

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http://centurylink.net/tv/3/player/vendor/CNN/player/cnn/asset/cnn-kurdish_soldiers_stand_in_the_shadow_of_isis_capit-cnn

Rook; There's nothing wrong with questioning one's faith, and nothing wrong with not believing. A choice that steers you off the chosen path doesn't mean you're evil.

"Those who believe they believe in God, but without passion in the heart, without anguish of mind, without uncertainty, without doubt, and even at times without despair, believe only in the idea of God, and not in God himself.”

What would be wrong is throwing out principles and morals because of a lack of faith. The golden rule is in almost all religions for a reason. I was struggling with the same problem, unanswered prayers, and this was suggested to me. Instead of praying for things you "think" will make your life better, try giving thanks for the things that actually do. You might see things you've missed or forgotten, and life will start to look better. As life looks better, it will be. Strive to be a better person, and as you do, you'll be surprised at what comes your way. I'm in a much better place now. I'm sure it's temporary, but what isn't? Hang in there.

* Last updated by: alg8er on 11/24/2015 @ 1:58 AM *

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Rook, from what I have read over the years on this forum, you strike me as a very descent and considerate person.
I honestly don't think anyone here would disagree.
And perhaps alg8er see's a similar thing and in his own way is trying to help which is very admirable.
But notice the religious barb thrown in?
"A choice that steers you off the chosen path doesn't mean you're evil."

My advise to you is run with your own experience and what your heart honestly tells you.
Forget my belief or anyone else's.
If you believe God is truly the way to go, then run with it.
But if God is not for you, don't let anyone else try to convince you otherwise.

"What would be wrong is throwing out principles and morals because of a lack of faith."
Why does religion constantly claim a monopoly on morality, decency and principals as if non believers could not figure out these concepts for themselves?

Rook, run with what you truly believe.
It's actually the only way to really be true to yourself.

Simple as that.

* Last updated by: yannih on 11/24/2015 @ 6:06 AM *

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"But notice the religious barb thrown in?"...cmon Yanman...he's only speaking from his own feelings on it.That's all it is...his opinion.

Hard to explain to anyone who doesn't accept the Bible's words.When you're on 'one side' of it looking 'in'...you see it saying one thing.When you're on the 'other' side of it,accepting and looking 'out'...it is something completely different.Alg8ter's not throwing any darts.He's only speaking from his truth about it.It's not fair(IMO)to put a slant on Alg8ters comment.I agree with Alg8ter.I think I understand what he's saying.

Otherwise..I think he'd have said..."you're not saved Bud".He didn't even go there.

I don't think there are any true atheists.Everyone believes in SOMETHING.If it produces something positive into their lives...that's good.If it leaves a sense of 'lacking'...that's good also.We get to our final destination through countless ways.Everyone has their own unique way of getting there.As it should be.And is.

This idea of an 'ultimate truth' is open to everyone.Things do change however for an individual that chooses the 'Bible Way"....this is fact.This isn't religion.This is relationship.Big difference.

Blaming 'religion' for the woes of this world is silly.It's PEOPLE that are making their choices.Individuals.It's a direct reflection of their own personal relationship with their "God".The quran has their version of "God".As do all the others.IS there a ONE TRUE GOD?I believe so.Because of how things have unfolded in my life up to now.I can see it clear as day.Much clearer than 'before' I believed.That's my experience...yours may vary;)

I certainly don't 'condemn' anyone for NOT thinking the way I do.I was once on the 'other side' as well.Believing in something you can't actually 'see' is natural and human.But looking back...I realize just how much I was missing.I do know for myself...the contrast between "unbelieving" to "believing" is like two different lives.And it's 'made sense' out of all the stuff that was and is going on now.

There's no way I could ever 'go back'...or say.."it aint so"...it's that genuine.For me anyway.

"Rook, run with what you truly believe"...I'd only say...for anyone..not pointed at the Rookster....if what you're getting in life is fulfilling and okay and helps you feel at peace with your life...stay where ya are.If it's not...there may be more beyond yourself.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 11/24/2015 @ 7:49 AM *

This feeling of 'wanting to belong"..or feeling of "I make my own decisions" is really universal to everyone.Just like air.But what is it really?It's a desire to find 'truth' within ourselves.Could it be possible that SOMETHING much greater instilled that within each person?Placed there to cause each one to somehow question their own place in life?We all do it.At some point(or points).Could it be possible that this is GOD's way of opening the door to our hearts...nudging us to look for something 'bigger' than ourselves?Could it be possible that a connection with this 'Being' or whatever a person chooses to call.."God"..could actually be real?Even if 'it' can't be seen with the human eye?

You don't see the laws of physics...but you see the results of those.Are they not actual 'laws'?

Could it possible that there IS a 'One God'?One God that actually HAS a plan for the Human Race?Could it be possible that all that's happening today is a direct result of man 'rejecting' this God?

To me...it IS possible.It's clearer than reality itself.Am I gonna change the world believing this?No.But I can change myself,through trusting this "God".This world as is is NOT gonna change for the better.It can't.Because men are running it into the ground.Believing in their own resources.Making decisions based on their own thinking.
I can try to be a help to someone else however.Someone struggling.Trying to find something that makes sense out of all that's happening.Trying to find real peace inside themselves.Which starts to move outward to others.And I do think this is the truth concerning the words.."chosen ones".I didn't set out in life to become a believer.No way would I have made this decision on my own.No way.To me...'chosen ones' doesn't imply that I had any attributes in my life that I somehow was 'special' or deserving.It's God's decision for whatever reason.Not mine.It doesn't make me 'better than ' anyone else.I'm not.Never will be.But it IS a gift that has changed my life inside.I did nothing to merit it.NOTHING.He made it possible for me to even START to believe in something greater than myself.He did it...not me.

It's interesting to note...way back when...people wrote stories and made movies about science fiction.They seemed preposterous.Like...'no way'.It DID happen.

Now fast forward to TODAY's SCI-FI movies.Look at the storylines.'Something Out There'...parallel universes.Time travels.Separate civilizations.IS it possible that God is using these(causing them to be in the minds of the writers and such) as flags to get the masses looking at something different?To wake people up from the stuff that's going on now?IDK...maybe.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 11/24/2015 @ 8:37 AM *

"But notice the religious barb thrown in?"...cmon Yanman...he's only speaking from his own feelings on it. That's all it is...his opinion."

Agree 100%. It is obvious that alg8er was only trying to help. Absolutely nothing against him.

But note religious people are rarely neutral.
Instead of saying "You choose whats right for you" and leaving it at that, they say things like "Choose whats right for you but if its not with God it doesn't mean you are evil". Really? Well thank you for that.
Or
"You choose whats right for you but ensure you don't throw out basic principles and morals because of a lack of faith." Yes, because the moment I realised I didn't believe the first thing I wanted to do was go out and rape someone.

Just let people be and make their own decision without the little added guilt trips if it's against God.

And Green, how many times are you going to suggest "Could it be" or "Is it possible" or "Maybe".
Is there any fear of any provable facts being introduced here?
Ah, now that creates a pretty substantial issue huh?

"Now fast forward to TODAY's SCI-FI movies.Look at the storylines.'Something Out There'...parallel universes.Time travels.Separate civilizations.IS it possible that God is using these(causing them to be in the minds of the writers and such) as flags to get the masses looking at something different?To wake people up from the stuff that's going on now?IDK...maybe."

Come on mate, youre not going all Scientologist on me now are you?

* Last updated by: yannih on 11/24/2015 @ 12:23 PM *

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LOL...I know NOTHING about L.Ron Hubbard..except his name;)

I just say 'is it possible' only to open the idea that I don't know it all.Rather than say..."I know what someone needs".

I have to go back to the analogy of the owner's manual.Kawasaki puts it out there.No one EVER 'needs' read it or use it at all.There's no moral judgement on anyone if they do or don't.It's totally open-ended.My feelings on the "God" concept is just that.It's there...if anyone wants it or not.It won't be forced on anyone(By the 'producer' of it).
Just like the manual isn't.

The 'consequences' contained in it along with the 'blessings' contained in it are not based on a moral definition.They're simply there.Take it or leave it.

The problem of acceptance comes from the 'rules' man places on it.But they're not coming from the author.Not in my opinion anyway.God never said.."when you straighten up".Or 'when you're good enough'.And it's also not about what good or lack of it that a person has done in their lives...or does do.That's totally separate from the "Truth" in the Bible.Since God KNOWS the thoughts of our hearts(if one believes this)...He's the one I'll have to face in the end...

Just as an 'unbeliever' will also face.Doing good can never be wrong...with or without God.Being kind can never be wrong.Helping others and being a comfort can never be wrong.I believe God sees all this...and will 'judge' accordingly.The 'blood sacrifice' of Christ isn't a fallacy.It happened.No other 'prophet' went this route.

That separates all the other beliefs from "Christianity".If of course one believes this 'story'.I choose to.It makes perfect sense...and I do believe my feelings personally bear out the truth of this 'story'.

But not only feelings...but 'seeing'.Recognizing things around me.Things that have happened in my own life.Things that continue to happen in my life.They all bear out the 'truth' of my believing.But I can't 'see' this until I CHOOSE to accept it.I'm blind to it until I chance 'faith' towards it.I have to do this without actually 'seeing' a God or anything else.It won't occur for me until I do this.Only then will this Spirit reveal Himself to me.That's simply the way it is...just like the laws of physics.If I stay safely inside those laws...I'm good.If I go past em,I wreck.But with God...when I go past the natural law of 'seeing is believing'...I don't wreck.I receive a new opening to living.And that's what it's about...a new way of understanding and living.Things make sense where they didn't before.My awareness of things change.The 'other' way...my way..appears as just what it was...limited and bound by my own understanding.That's why man's ways will never solve life's issues.Like peace and such.They can't...because man's ways are intrinsically set for failure.God didn't want it this way...but man chose this way..God allows this.God offers a way out...man chooses to stay where he's at.Man is caught in an endless loop of self..it's not God's fault it's this way...it's man's fault.The ONLY thing that can break it is...GOD.He gave us free will to decide.That's the 'fair' thing to do.He didn't have to make it like that.He could force us anytime He wanted to.Even now...He could change everything.But He won't..because He said.."This is my word,I don't change..so you can trust in Me".

That's how I see it.It's got nothing to do with morality or judgement.The things people use to create 'equalibrium' for themselves.

God isn't trying to 'punish' me,or make me feel 'less than' in any way.He's trying to get me to be a part of His reality.The reality of the eternal.Of the endless joy and love that He is.The boundless power of His being.The power that changes things.I demonstrate it here on earth.Where it's needed.One life at a time...one interaction at a time.Without trying to change anyone.Only being in His spirit.Giving that away.Letting Him do what's truly needed.Beyond my capacities.I can't do that until I open the door to the 'possibility' that He does exist...and that He really KNOWS what's best.It's all on faith.Not seeing first.

I learn how to pray correctly.I learn what to expect and not to expect.This is totally normal.Just like the manual is.It's not magic.It's fact...just as God is fact.

If I break a bolt cause I did it my way...when I look in the manual and realize..'Oh shit...I SHOULD have done it THIS way"..that realization produces a sense of confidence in the manual.Just as God does.I usually don't find that out until I break something...unless I'm willing to READ(or accept) first...then do the procedure.It's not about morality.It's about factual truth.But it's important to realize...while I can take the manual and read it...God isn't just sitting there 'waiting' for me to break something.He's actively surrounding me with His power...drawing me closer.I'm not doing it...He is...because He loves me.I don't earn it...He freely gives it...for my good...not His.Although He does get unfathomable joy when I turn to Him.And He gives that back to me...and anyone who chooses to trust in Him.Without seeing.Without coercion.Without condition...except 'faith'.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 11/24/2015 @ 1:51 PM *

Christ said...'you shall know the truth,and the truth shall set you free"...not...you 'might' know.But that you WILL know.Once you receive this...there's no going back.Nothing's ever the same again.And you can't(and won't) accept any counterfeits after that happens.This is the 'reality' of God.The truth that everyone's looking for.It only comes from this "God" that many say doesn't exist.

You're not just 'winging it' on your own after this...you're being guided into all truth.Every second of your life.Through this 'spirit' that people say isn't really there.Isn't that what people REALLY want...meaning...a place.A reason for living?God wants that for everyone as well...He made us this way.To connect with Him.To have a REAL foundation for living.Living in faith isn't a 'sentence' or a prison.It's really a full on,high five..kick ass relationship with something eternally greater and unfailing than ANYTHING this world can offer..as good as those things may seem to be..and are sometimes.It's MUCH farther out than that.

When a person loses their fear of death...they do amazing and incredible things..the world is FULL of these things with people.God takes that to the next level.Christ showed that the 'end' is not the final place.He did it with Lazarus...and He did it with Himself(and others after His resurrection).If of course,one believes it.If not...it's simply a 'nice story'...but what if...it DID happen?It would be a tragedy to finally realize it after one dies.When it's really too late to change anything.I don't want to take that chance.No thanks..I'll stick with what I got right now.Much better than 'hoping' 'something' will reassure me after I leave this world.However it turns out...I do believe that what God has shown me personally is the actual deal.I'm good with that.Helluva lot better than what I had before...tell ya that right cheer;).

Anyway...where were we?Oh yeah...that 'peaceful religion'...sorry.Got sidetracked.My bad.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 11/24/2015 @ 2:23 PM *

Anti-Refugee Backlash Is The Perfect ISIS Recruiting Tool...copy and paste to your browser and hit 'search'.

I DO understand the small possibility of 'terrorists' infiltrating with these refugees.Hopefully the 'pressure' that's being addressed to our leaders is being heard.As it should be.But it's also I think important to realize...these guys(the Paris attackers)had PASSPORTS...fake apparently..but they did FLY into Paris at some time.So stopping ALL refugees isn't a total solution to this danger.It's very difficult to 'get this right'...especially when you consider that there's a whole community of USA haters in our country right now.Americans I mean.It's really out of anyone's control.In all honesty.Another example of man choosing his own solutions.I do think the future is gonna bear this out...I hate to say...'tragically'...but this is where it's headed.

It's never too late to make a difference however one family at a time,in every nation.In every individual.It's not going to change what's been written...but it can change people's lives in the now.We owe our kids and all to provide hope for themselves and their lives.Beyond what's up ahead.Practical help.Actionable help.Not just words.Right now.

The good thing...there's millions and millions of people doing this right now...every hour...every nation.The news and all doesn't advertise this nearly enough.IDK why they don't...but they don't."being good and kind" just doesn't make 'good story'.It can appear that NOTHING's going good.That's bullshit.There's far more good going on than bad...tell ya that.

What I'd like to see..is just ONE day...ALL the news outlets in every country chose to feature ONLY the good that people are doing.In households.In living.In all of it.Just one 24 hour period.Hospitals...rehabs...community supports.All of it.It just might encourage the world populations to CONTINUE doing good.To see the power of 'goodness' that's happening.This I'd like to see.One big blast of 'good' in this world.

To see ALL those hating to just lay aside their selfish ambitions and give GOOD unto others in every capacity.Just for the sake of bettering someone else's condition.Imagine what that would look like.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 11/24/2015 @ 3:12 PM *

Now fast forward to TODAY's SCI-FI movies.Look at the storylines.'Something Out There'...parallel universes.Time travels.Separate civilizations.IS it possible that God is using these(causing them to be in the minds of the writers and such) as flags to get the masses looking at something different?To wake people up from the stuff that's going on now?IDK...maybe.

One thing for sure; science fiction sooner or later becomes reality. What we as humans are, where we come from and what happens to us when we die are our greatest mysteries. I'm sure those will all be answered in the next hundred years. Life will be created through science. Humans will modify their own DNA to improve the species on an ongoing basis. The human brain will be copied, reused and people will achieve immortality. Evolution will become something we control. Life will be found to exist elsewhere in the universe. Everything that could only be explained by the existence of God will be done by people. I'm not sure what place God will have in our lives when we get to this point. If God is real, I would think He would be getting ready to step in on His creation mighty quick here before it explains Him out of existence.

As far as the recent news story about the bystander who escaped certain death because the murderer's automatic weapon jammed, I cannot find the video but looked to me like the victim was Arabic. The killer who has now been caught was American. Not to say that was the only reason for the publicity but that would be pretty good pro-Islamic refugee propaganda. There were also a couple women who avoided point blank head shots in Paris because the terrorist's gun would not fire. Do these guns jam easily or is it truly miraculous that these people escaped death?

Anti-Refugee Backlash Is The Perfect ISIS Recruiting Tool...copy and paste to your browser and hit 'search'.

Having lots of refugees would have it's own backlash if Muslim extremists ever gain a foothold in our country. Realistically speaking, it would be highly improbable that Muslim citizens would be loyal to the USA and pretty likely they would take shelter in their religion. Would we trust them to be US soldiers? If we could, we could give the soldier status and let them be refugees after they have fought for this country. This will never happen because they would be a huge surrender/espionage risk. I'm only in favor of allowing Kurdish refugees. They fight terrorists. let the rest of the Middle East (and world for that matter) join them and then they can come here.

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"If God is real, I would think He would be getting ready to step in on His creation mighty quick here before it explains Him out of existence"...LOL....I don't think God is worried about mankind explaining Him out of existence.

Afterall...if He IS GOD...he'll be around a lot longer than any Human experience.Besides...man has already tried like hell to do just that...it hasn't worked.You can't explain something does or doesn't exist if you honestly don't believe it's there in the first place.That'd be admitting it 'could' be there.Which according to some...it isn't..????

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 11/24/2015 @ 8:05 PM *

yannih; "A choice that steers you off the chosen path" was referring to this......."nothing wrong with questioning one's faith, and nothing wrong with not believing" Not a religious dig in any way. Also referring to (can't find it so paraphrasing) anything you do that's not God's plan is evil.
The comment about morals and principles connects to that too. Throw away the religion, but not the morals and principles.
I don't follow an organized religion, but I do believe in God. There is way too much corruption in most religion's leaders, and way too many of their followers for me. I try to live according to what makes sense to me. The golden rule makes sense, so I try to follow it. Turn the other cheek made sense in ages past, but today that will just get you killed. I try avoidance. I grew up catholic, but the arbitrary rules made no sense.
I have had prayers answered, and it changed my life. I didn't know it at the time, and thought they were unanswered, but came to realize I received exactly what I prayed for. Unfortunately, I'll be paying for that for the rest of my life. Important lesson, and hence the advice not to ask for things. I take things as they come now, and thank God every day. Whether anyone else in this world believes doesn't matter to me. Rook has helped me in the past, and I thought I'd toss in my 2 cents. I'm like a twig in a mighty river, just waving as I float by.

* Last updated by: alg8er on 11/25/2015 @ 12:26 AM *

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Grn...wow man...respect!

Everyone one please consider...

If life is only what we can see, experience, and prove the only purpose is to pass on our genes to the next generation. Makes sense right? We're nothing but highly evolved houseflies. After all, we share what about 80% of our DNA with a housefly? Eat, shit, and fuck, that's our sole purpose of existence.

The thought occurred to me the other day. God helped me come to this understanding but you can either choose to believe that or not. If the only point of existence is to eat, shit, and fuck, then it's all a waste of time because we're all dead anyway. What do I mean by that?

If we "experience immortality through passing down our genes", it's pointless because at some point no matter how well things go life in this universe will cease to exist. Even if it's 2 billion years from now. Even if we continuously evolve over the next billions of years, at some point it will become impossible to survive in the very nature of this universe. The universe itself will become uninhabitable. So life itself, if it is only eating, shitting, and fucking, is completely and utterly pointless.

The question you have to ask yourself is life utterly pointless? If it's not, then there must be something greater than our existence.

Vic, you respect all the religious additives on this thread?

You are obviously very easily pleased and led considering yet again not one piece of concrete evidence or proof has been provided. And it never will be. Because it never has been. Ever.
Just a lot of maybe's, what if's, could be's and perhaps's.
And many provided analogies that are not even close to making sense.
Add continuous quotes from a book that is suppose to make a difference that no one knows who the author is.
Oh, and also a whole lot of required faith to believe in something that no one can show to be absolutely so.

And you honestly think life is completely and utterly useless?

You don't see life as a gift no matter what you believe?
You dont see the beauty everywhere around you?
You dont value the experiences, good and bad, happy and sad we all gain everyday?
Family means nothing to you?
Nor do friends?
Love doesn't come into your calculations?
Eating, shitting and fucking is our lot, so there obviously must be something greater huh?
Not even I expected this piece of religious non logic, and I have certainly heard my fair share...

You know where I am miles in front of you Vic?
I love life. Every moment is precious. I make the most of every second because I believe there is nothing afterwards.
I live the fullest life I can and do this because I dont waste time on things that may or may not exist.
Its about here. And its about now.
Dont waste a micro second of it.

If life being completely and utterly useless is truly your opinion, it is a very sad view on our short but precious time on this earth.

My recommendation is to find the highest cliff you can, and step off.
You will then end this completely and utterly useless existence, and as long as you truly believe (because everything else can be forgiven) you will go straight on to the glory of God's after life.
Who knows. You may even get yourself 72 virgins as well.
That of course is if you are 100% correct about your beliefs.

Are you willing to roll that dice mate???

* Last updated by: yannih on 11/26/2015 @ 8:51 PM *

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Yannih you have two belief choices.

Choice one
When our lights go out, all that we are as a being is lost in that instant. If that's what you believe then our only purpose can be is to eat, shit, and fuck. All this in some vain attempt to be remembered. Remembered if not by name, by genetics.

In 10,000 years no one will know this conversation ever took place. In 10,000 years, you'll have no idea if someone from your genetic descendant exist or not. That there was a some guy named Yannih and some guy named Vic debating about what is real and unreal. No one will know what a ZX-14R is. Heck, they probably won't even know what a motorcycle is except maybe one will be in a museum if they even bother with such a thing.

So you can't believe life is that precious. If you're talking about this day to day shit, like riding motorcycles, and spending time with your family, and all that so they remember you? For what? What would be the point? They'd remember you until they die? And then maybe...just maybe their kids might know your name and have a picture of you or something? In 100 years, you will have never existed.

With choice one, there's nothing inherently special about life if by the very course of nature any form of life and even existence will be squished down to something the size of a few molecules when the universe basically becomes a giant black hole in 14 billion years. Kind of the whole point of Darwinism isn't it? Survival of the fittest? Well, at some point that's just all bullshit because the fittest have no chance when the entire Milky Way galaxy collapses into a black hole in a few billion years.

From your point of view, the only person that places any value on your life is you and possibly your genetic line. And that's the same for everyone who believes like you. There is no other possibility, it cannot be interpreted any other way because in the end there is no one and nothing to remember anyway. Even if you make a "remember Yannih" time capsule that is stored in some archive for 6 million years, eventually there will be no one or even anything to look at it. So doing so would be entirely pointless. At that point, you will have never existed anyway. Since that's the case, you don't even exist right now. There is no difference.

Choice two
Choice two is much simpler. Choice two recognizes that a higher power, a being different than anything we can understand, created life therefore it has value if for no other reason than that higher power created it for some purpose that we cannot know.

With choice two life is special, and only special because that decision was made by that higher power. Now remember, it can't be nature because natures going to extinguish any possibility of existence. Even if man advances to the point of being able to teleport ourselves around the universe, the universe is going to come to an end. There will be no where for man to teleport at some point.

In the USA, our (human) rights are based on those from a creator, something larger than us. Because if they aren't, it's just one person's word against another. It's just one person saying "hey, life is this valuable" and someone else might disagree that "nope, life is that valuable". For life to have any inherent value, it requires belief in a higher power.

* Last updated by: VicThing on 11/26/2015 @ 9:36 PM *

If it should turn out that God's not real, I'll be pretty happy with all the eating shitting and fucking I did as well as some other things. I'll sure regret passing on all the fucking I could have done as a lad. What a dumfuk I was.

"For everything there is a season, and a time for every matter under heaven"

You're right though. When it's just about curtain time, that's probably gonna sorta suck if there' nothing after it's all done. Nevertheless, I'll make life as meaningful as I can while I have it whether I believe or not. As far as the universe ending, that's a long time away and I trust science will have that and everything else well under control. If God doesn't put a stop to science, science will become god.

* Last updated by: Rook on 11/26/2015 @ 9:54 PM *

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