makes Schnitz and the HTP Hayabusa the world's first streetbike in the 6s.

not bad knew it who happen sooner or later.

1/8 mile 4.53 sec at 171.03

* Last updated by: mark43 on 12/12/2011 @ 3:16 PM *

embed disabled by request but here's the link. first 1;30 minutes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4s_7F3SI_l8

....and might I say, 'oly phock!

recently been doing some NOS research and it's not as cheap as a simple bottle and sprayer. A few fancy electronics too. Still a lot cheaper than turbo and if it will get you up to 200 in the 1/4 mile????? well, that is just amazing. Friggin insane is what it is.

* Last updated by: Rook on 12/12/2011 @ 4:26 PM *

..and might I say, 'oly phock!

2ND, 3RD, 4TH If only,,,,. Then I woke up.

recently been doing some NOS research and it's not as cheap as a simple bottle and sprayer. A few fancy electronics too. Still a lot cheaper than turbo and if it will get you up to 200 in the 1/4 mile????? well, that is just amazing

Rook, I know you are looking I have read your posts.

I am not trying to change your direction but I want you to know this about Boost. I ride in boost Every single time I'm on the bike, maybe not always full boost, but in boost none the less. Jack rabbit wheel spins, drifting are a ball and the grin in the Fun Factor cannot be cleaned from my face lol,,, Love It.

The Fun Factor Of A Turbo Is Incredible. Which is why I went Turbo. I ride for fun only. Track days are rare,,,work gets in the way grrrrrr.

I know if I went NOS on a street bike I would never use it unless pointed in a straight line,,,,,, that alone = Fun gone. In the back of your mind your thinking not to waste it, Never mind the filling bottle issue. Almost a track thing only or just once and awhile at WOT only.

With a turbo you do not have to go WOT every time but if your going to feel the joy of the pull with NOS you almost need to be or what's the point.

Just wanted you to know, Turbo Fun is all in your wrist. Whenever you want and how much you want. Just wanted you to know before you spend. Cheers Bro. Can't imagine how many bottles I would have filled already.

The problem with NOS is it only works for a few seconds and then its gone.

Run NOS through your intake enough and you get to rebuild your engine prematurely.

Perfect example, that Pawn Stars tv show. Rick told his son that since Rick was driving a sand rail with nitrous, he could beat his son driving a normally aspirated engined rail in a race through the sand dunes.

Rick popped the valve and his rail jumped out to a lead. The NOS ran out, and his son motored past him like he was standing still.

NOS doesn't work like they depicted it in Fast and Furious. Thats an exaggeration for effect and fun.

NOS does work on a 1/8th or 1/4 mile.

But I'll take a turbocharged or supercharged engine over a NOS engine at the drag strip any day.

But I'll take a turbocharged or supercharged engine over a NOS engine at the drag strip any day.

2ND for reasons listed above. The thing is they have(4 now)now proven that a NOS is faster. But, NOT for us small Fish lol.

Just wanted you to know, Turbo Fun is all in your wrist. Whenever you want and how much you want. Just wanted you to know before you spend. Cheers Bro. Can't imagine how many bottles I would have filled already.

hmmmmmmm, yeah, I can see obviously nitrous is gonna be pretty frustrating on the road if it runs out all the time. But the cost of a NOS is more in line with my budget and also looks like I could instal that all by myself almost as easy as installing an exhaust system.

I know the bottles come in different sizes but take the average size about 9" long and 3" diameter. How long would one of those last spraying steadily until empty --say for a top speed run?

yeah, I can see obviously nitrous is gonna be pretty frustrating on the road if it runs out all the time.

I guess all depends how much you use it. There is allot to NOS. Also can be Hard on the noodle with pressure drop, bottle warmers progressive controllers and on and on..... Big Big Subject. No doubt would be awesome going straight for wide open throttle use.

I know the bottles come in different sizes but take the average size about 9" long and 3" diameter. How long would one of those last spraying steadily until empty --say for a top speed run?

What size shot ???? 40, 60, 80 ? My buddy just finished his 80 shot install and is waiting for his head to come back from APE. I can let you know. Personally, I think he is in for a tuning night mare and Many dollars going to be spent on Dyno working out the bugs but we will see. Cold here now. Snow soon.

Here is pic of a couple small bottles good for about 30 hair raising miles Lol

* Last updated by: Romans on 12/14/2011 @ 3:45 PM *

I see an empty case o' long necks in the back....well, I assume it must be empty. lol doing a little mod brainstorming, I see. Nice tire you have on the 14 there!

What size shot ???? 40, 60, 80 ?

what exactly does the number refer to? a 40 shot, is that +40 hp??

You wouldn't go more than 40 shot without going to some heavier engine pieces would you? 40 is about the limit for a stock motor isn't it?
what exactly does the number refer to? a 40 shot, is that +40 hp??

Some guys here claim 80 at the track,,,, STOCK,,,,,Claim.

Rook you have Auto tune, I would start off with a 40 shot watching to see if auto tune was fast enough to catch the AFR changes, then work my way up to,,,,,,, Nicest part with NOS it will Keep pistons cool. Boost will never be able to make that claim. Hence the current winner. Just Say'in

There was a very simple kit for sale on E-Bay for our bikes that sprayed cold NOS on air box sensor tricking the ECU into adding some fuel. Great place to start IMO.

Claim was, once through filter 20 horse power gain at rear wheel,,,, ALL SAFE . Great place to start. Just playing of course.

Rook, If I were u, I would sell auto tune buy wide ban 2 install AFR gauge then ,,,,Play. The AFR #'s are your guide to safety, with out this in play it's ALL guessing and depending on others here say. NOT GOOD ,,, No matter what is said online it's NEVER What YOUR BIKE is doing. The #'s you see will always always Help sort out BS from all the claims online. Important if moving to next level. Look forward to reading your next move. Cheers

haha well I'm just thinking about stuff.

I know you feel the AT-200 cant tune for below 3.5 K rpm but I see no reason why an AFR guage can't work with AT. I have the DJ LCD and the AFR gauge on that display works just fine. Maybe I will just have to try it to see what you guys are al talking about. I haven't had to learn anything at all about tuning. AT seems to have adjusted the maps I've run without any trouble. But I could be missing something.

Yeah, saw the double bottle Nitrous kit on Ebay. Cool but Looked a little shady to me. I think it was the claim that it fooled the bike into not needing a tune. Heck, I was afraid to run my full system without a map. I'd never run nitrous w/o a tune except in very small incremental stages.

AFR gauge on that display works just fine.

Sorry did not know you had installed.

I know you feel the AT-200 cant tune for below 3.5 K rpm

,,,,, well, sorta ??? Auto Tune is slow to react. If your bike is running 1st or second gear to red line you will see few trim recomandations. Hence 5th gear runs being very important. If RPM climbs to fast auto tune is blind.

AT seems to have adjusted the maps I've run without any trouble. But I could be missing something.

Works great if you DO NOT touch throttle on the RPM wind Down. If you do, at any time, tune changes,,,, Not Good, AFR #'s prove. Where is that in the write up ? just sayin can't go by trim alone.

All important info if going NOS. NOS plays for Keeps.

Cool but Looked a little shady to me. I think it was the claim that it fooled the bike into not needing a tune.

just a small simple system to start off with. NOS in HP is the result. Your AFR gauge will let you know if AFR #'s are off ????

haha well I'm just thinking about stuff.

Lol, enough question to make me think your all in. Fun stuff always gets my attention lol

* Last updated by: Romans on 12/15/2011 @ 7:57 PM *

mmmmmHM. I could use a wrenching project this winter.

Dyno Tune still has that dual bottle system. $400 I'd like to get something that I know I will not want to upgrade from. BUt, if I know nothin, ?????? Think that system will be able to grow as my knowledge of this stuff grows? or will I be buying something else to replace it? I mean someday maybe I would go with a progressive controller??? IDK??

I like the way this Muzzy attaches to the frame.

http://www.schnitzracingstore.com/catalogs/catalog.asp?prodid=4827787&showprevnext=1#

I don't want to put the rear peg brackets back on to the hold bottles like the DynoTune system .

* Last updated by: Rook on 12/16/2011 @ 3:49 AM *

[quote] $400 I'd like to get something that I know I will not want to upgrade from. [quote]

All these systems will give you knowledge. Got to start somewhere.

Wet is Nice ???

Got to start somewhere.

Yeah, I was sorta picking that up from your earlier posts, Rom. I like the DynoTune Dual bottle system. It will be something to play with and will satisfy the poserly pursuits I have as well as start me off in learning the ins and outs of using nitrous. If I don't like, it is not too much $$$.

That wet system you have a link to is too much $$$ for me at my stage. I was set on getting new wheels before I even started to think about NOS. .....but why do you like wet nitrous over dry and what is the dif?

. I was set on getting new wheels

Sweet, which ones TRI- Rs ? or $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ BST ?????????????? or Marchesini$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Do tell

.but why do you like wet nitrous over dry and what is the dif?

Ok, big subject but my Coles notes is,, Mapping and AFR #'s. You and I are street racers so,,, I will only do what Needs no help from others. I would rather spend my money on parts than pay others to do what I can learn myself,,,,, So,,,, Moving Forward

Mapping Dry ;

You must start off with a Rich AFR map and then ADD 20 shot NOS to see where it brings your AFR #'s then move forward, record #'s then map again, 40 shot, 60, All while listening for pre-detentation. Good fuel while learning is a MUST. C-16 ???? Takes time and all must be done at wide open throttle. Or, once again ,,what's the point ????

Next,,,,map switch. You know flip switch to a NOS map for a Nos runs only. PCV has all available in software. Map Process is the same. Make YOUR MAP FOR YOUR BIKE. NOS timing where and when is all up to you.

Wet mapping ;

Run your bike as stock like it is Now(sweet)and add the fuel with the NOS at the EXACT SAME TIME to keep AFR #'s safe. You know, off the Nos off the fuel. Easier to tune. All about the tune and our learning curve as Rookies. More wrist control is given this way.... More to it than this but that's the fewest words saying the most,,,How did I do lol.

I like the DynoTune Dual bottle system. It will be something to play with and will satisfy the poserly pursuits I have as well as start me off in learning the ins and outs of using nitrous

Rook best starter system i've seen, you could add 40 60 shot with this system with your current set up Easy,,, Start with 20 and Learn your AFRs while working your way up. I'm sure NOS can be very rewarding.... Cheers.

Sweet, which ones TRI- Rs ? or $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ BST ?????????????? or Marchesini$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Do tell

Tri-Rs. Blue. I think when all is said and done (sprocket carrier, spacers and all that other extraneous SH!T) the BSTs are the lightest but not by enough to make much dif. The rotors are bigger on the Tri-Rs but that will hardly matter --all rotors are very close in weight. The 13" rotors look great. I don't see any deals. The price is same as always.

I would rather spend my money on parts than pay others to do what I can learn myself,,

that's the fewest words saying the most,,,How did I do lol.

Rook best starter system i've seen, you could add 40 60 shot with this system with your current set up Easy,,, Start with 20 and Learn your AFRs while working your way up. I'm sure NOS can be very rewarding.... Cheers.

Now I just have to find out if I will get busted for having the empty system on the bike. I sorta think not.

Also, can I still track ride if I take the bottles off. I'd hate to have to remove the whole system to go to do a road course track day. With all the $$$ I might spend on the 14, a little track bike seems less likely. but you never know. God's dollars go far. They'll either come to me or they won't.

I also have to decide if I believe nitrous will be safe on my bike. 1bad is saying NO. I had some unusual wear in my camshaft caps. 1bad said maybe put a high volume oil pump on it to get plenty of oil to the top end before doing nitrous.

.....then again, if i never saw the inside of the caps, I'd be hooking up Nitrous without a concern.

* Last updated by: Rook on 12/16/2011 @ 11:06 PM *

The scoring is really not very noticeable to the touch but it is very easy to see.

Can you, yes or no, chew on the most tiniest rocks if I filled your mouth with enough micro chips off of rock, you'd be having goose bumps just thinking about it biting down. Count that as one variable in the oil mix.

Can you, yes or no, see break-in machined chips that just will not dislodge by air or rinse, she seems to be contaminated via this chip, that break in high-spot got knocked off. Count that as one more variable in the oil mix.

Can you, yes or no, count the gall marks on that cam cap? How many start ups do you see in the count? You are saying, 'the design is bad' basically, the 'start up is the killer,' and again, you chase two what? A gall count my start ups, or is it grit my contamination down to debris you can't control down an oil galley?

Can you say; Clean air cleaner will keep the lodged locked in that felt. But if clogged, who is the first to go was the first to slam into that pleat. If not some, climb over my back, you go first is the suck. And that suck is so violently strong, vacuum is going to tear that paper off and bring that 14.7 back no matter WOT!

Can you say; Clean oil has less debris in suspension to run thru the oil pump again. Less chance it goes galling for dollars, you neglected the two most important engine killing areas to change more often than not. I'm going to say; that call is a gall of one guy that spun in there a few rounds a split second, till it was galling enough to be pushed out by the pressure that was pretty much constant.

She was huge. Go and count how many times you started that bike up from day one till now. Did it match that gall count? Or, does a break-in debris/slash/dirty air cleaner pull some grit in? Blew it down the skirt. See that straight line on the skirts? That is blow-down grit. You can't blow up grit from a splash oil feed? Especially when that line begins at the top of the cylinder wall.

Make sense? YOur two fallacies against the boys'grit?

Illegal? That is funny! The epa is going to warn you not to shoot pure oxygen into the air. Don't mess with the industrial air, it's illegal? Humans are stupid! Thank you!

Can you say; Clean oil has less debris in suspension to run thru the oil pump again. Less chance it goes galling for dollars, you neglected the two most important engine killing areas to change more often than not.

see break-in machined chips that just will not dislodge by air or rinse

So you think dirty oil caused the above ?

Got passed bikes oil filter ???

Rook I'm sure changes his oil more often than most, Rook ????

Illegal? That is funny! The epa is going to warn you not to shoot pure oxygen into the air.

To Pollute the Air is perfectly legal though,,,,, lol

Not sure what exactly the law quotes,,,, under street racing somewhere. Not Good.

I thought TRI-R's were almost same ???? (weight as BSTs)

Rook’s Weight Estimate, BST v Tri-R
OEM ZX-14
Front rim w/1brake rotor, no spacers...............................14.8 lbs
Rear rim w/sprocket carrier(no sprocket)and no spacers.............22.0 lbs
total..............................................................36.8 lbs

Carazzeria Tri-R
Front 3.5”/17” rim only............................................6.1 lbs
bearings (same as WW, a guess).....................................0.45 lbs

Rear 6”/17” rim only..............................................8.5 lbs
Sprocket Carrier (same as Shane’s??)...............................1.79 lbs
Bearings (same fig as WW)..........................................1.15 lbs
total............................................................ 17.99 lbs

BST
Front 3.5” x 17” rim................................................5.65 lbs
Front Worldwide steel bearings......................................0.45 lbs

Rear 6” x 17” rim, sprocket carrier
and hardware (no sprocket).........................................10.65 lbs
Rear Worldwide steel bearings.......................................1.15 lbs
total...............................................................17.90 lbs

Shane’s BSTs
BST front rim, spacers..............................................6.06 lbs
BST rear rim, spacers...............................................9.25 lbs
Sprocket carrier....................................................1.79 lbs
total..............................................................17.10 lbs

Front w/o rotors
Tri-R front 6.55 lbs
BST front 6.10 lbs

Rear w/o rotor
Tri-R rear 11.44 lbs (possibly add ~ extra .75 lb for cush drive)
BST rear 11.80 (Shane’s figure was 11.04 lbs. perhaps did not weigh his wheel with the cush drive?)

Final guesstimate is that the Tri-Rs are gonna weigh about 1 lb more than what we have here. If so the back wheel will be a bit more than 1/2 lb more than BSTs. The front would be about the same as BST. We'll see how close I come to nailing that on the head.

* Last updated by: Rook on 12/17/2011 @ 3:13 PM *

Yes, I think that is internal debris. It's hard to say if that relief spring is releasing just to save it from popping off the engine case. You shoot that much pressure against the pleats, it may depress that spring a few handfuls on the break-in; the debris is still running strong for the first few hundred miles.

Fallacy for fallacy; Wouldn't you assume the engine would turn into powder each time it fires cold? Especially cars in the winter, all going to work or some other destination. Either way, I question that dry start theory. Same kind of [fallacy of the] more air theory you polish the ports. There is no MORE AIR per say, it just traveled faster with less friction filling the same amount of void. Thus, the 'slicker-air moved faster,' which will win stroke after stroke we cross the finish line.

Start for start, those old engines keep rolling if kept spotlessly clean. Yep, the air and oil are the secret to a higher lived state of compression. Round me out, call me 220/220. That is 22k miles with 220psi give or take. That too, says; I swapped so many oil grades/company names/weights. It says I'm one test mule, someone match my psi/mileage. The proof is in the compression test. I've seen some dirty [14] air filters I'd never let go that long. There is the other test bike so the fallacy turns true, we match psi.

That also says, start up should hurt a dry piston skirt as well. I'd say my air cleaner at the ram is pretty much holding less debris than the average air cleaner. The oil changes are not in line with your average oil change. The bike starts and leaves with the oil light still on. No stationary warmups. Ridden in sporty fashion. I'm trying to meet and greet that fallacy everyday, head on, key on. I can't tell if I lost power? 220psi vs. 228 book?

Look at how that score patter has that washing machine tumble effect. I see one huge metal piece that can shoot out of that big hole in the cam tower base, keep it spinning until it was small enough to leave the cap. Look how it is not a constant mark like if we have to keep starting the engine on the same crank position, would not that cause a more one-area-score? It more looked like it kept falling apart or disintegrated in a, screw-type-pattern-out she goes.

And remember too, each time that cam comes around on that end, that spring is pushing that lobe, which pushes the end of the cam's stub, up against that cap. That is more like thousands of times per minute. I've started my bike more times than I can count those score marks.

Whoever began that bunk, I've got my hand over my crotch, take that with a forward plunge! OUCH!

Say, when I started up my forward plunge, can you see if there is a fallacy flea biting me back there?

oil they stays up on the Engine parts is better in terms of wear, No ????

makes sense but more for warm starts (which are probably not as common as cold starts). I would think a thinner oil would circulate quicker and lube better on cold starts. When it gets hot, it prolly lubes a bit less more effectively than a thicker oil cuz it produces a thinnner film that clings to parts a bit less. If an oil maintains it's viscosity, I would think any of the common weights would do the job close to the same.

I have run plain old 10w/40 for nearly the entire 28K miles. I ran synthetic 10W/40 for a couple thousand. Just ran synthetic 15W/40 for 2K. SO I don't know. Could be something other than oil weight. Blockage maybe? IDK pretty hard to ever know unless i can change caps and observe the effect of dif oils or higher volume. ...so I am not going to worry about it. I did a camshaft cap wear test with plastiguage and that came out with good results. All were very close to the low end the standard gap range. Some were actually less than the standard range. There is not a lot of constant wear. The journals look perfectly smooth on the shafts. This may have been a one time deal that happened. Maybe a temporary block that was dislodged?

My belief is
the oil would just run off Hot engine parts and race it's way back to the pan

I believe any oil stays up in the head for a very long time. Ever start your bike and run it a minute? Turn it off and look at the oil sight glass. It will be empty for a while. It won't show the level it was at before startup for at least 10 minutes. When I removed my head cover, the bike had sat for weeks. There was still pools of oil in the bottom of the head and a good film of oil on all the parts.

Get pulled over in Toronto with bottles on board and the BS begins

Rook can I ask what has you looking inside your motor ????? Noise ???? More pics ?

I'm going to say; that call is a gall of one guy that spun in there a few rounds a split second, till it was galling enough to be pushed out by the pressure that was pretty much constant.

The epa is going to warn you not to shoot pure oxygen into the air. Don't mess with the industrial air, it's illegal? Humans are stupid! Thank you!

Not sure what exactly the law quotes,,,, under street racing somewhere. Not Good.

Rook I'm sure changes his oil more often than most, Rook ????

* Last updated by: Rook on 12/17/2011 @ 4:53 PM *

Final guesstimate is that the Tri-Rs are gonna weigh about 1 lb more than what we have here. If so the back wheel will be a bit more than 1/2 lb more than BSTs. The front would be about the same as BST. We'll see how close I come to nailing that on the head.

Here are my weights give or take from a cheap scale. Those #'s for the TRI-Rs are Amazing. What prices did you get ?

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SS Ceramic Bearings

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My belief is
the oil would just run off Hot engine parts and race it's way back to the pan

You're prolly right. The viscosity makes some dif on lubing properties. However, I think the oil pressure's ability to push oil up has a much larger effect on circulation than the oil's tendency to run back to the pan.

I believe any oil stays up in the head for a very long time. Ever start your bike and run it a minute? Turn it off and look at the oil sight glass. It will be empty for a while. It won't show the level it was at before startup for at least 10 minutes. When I removed my head cover, the bike had sat for weeks. There was still pools of oil in the bottom of the head and a good film of oil on all the parts.

Like most others here I have read all my brain can stand on the oil talk and in most cases I do not comment.

Buy good oil and change often and you will be fine.

One thing is for sure,,,,, The Sound of our Motors Run On Thicker Oil Is Much Different,, Better protected, Good or Bad will have to be your call.

* Last updated by: Romans on 12/17/2011 @ 7:24 PM *