Thought I'd throw this one up on the forum.

Sounds obvious but is it?
We all have our own reasons.

Me, I use to play a lot of team sport.
Loved those days.
Loved the comreadery.
Loved experiencing the wins and even the losses with mates.
Loved the beers afterwards.
Since I retired due to only having to watch sport on television to pull a hamstring, bikes have been a perfect replacement.
Love riding and the associated challenges.
Love riding with the boys.
Love the experience and great times with others.
And when you are away and the bikes are put away after a solid days ride in a little country pub somewhere, love the beers and discussions about the day and life in general.
Not to mention the great family in the motorcycle community whether you know a person or not.

Who cares about all the problems and stresses when you are on a bike with your mates?

As I mentioned somewhere before.

Cars transport the body, motorbikes transport the soul...

* Last updated by: yannih on 12/24/2014 @ 2:25 AM *

I started seeing faired sportbikes on the street in the mid eighties and I thought they were the coolest thing in the world. I guess I'm a little late to the party but sure glad i came. Passion is all it is.

Nothing like being able to just get out there...you and..your bike...rolling...smooth...steady...using all your senses...feeling excited...watching the eagles fly overhead...raising yer hands to the sky and shouting.."Thank you Lord for this gift!"....as you set up for that next curve...leaning in...powering up...feeling that line...on rails...hitting that apex a little sharper this time..feeling your machine react like a living thing...guiding it...trusting it...anticipating..but without fear;)Ninja's RULE baby

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 12/20/2014 @ 11:39 AM *

I can't pinpoint it. It must have been the 5-points of activity. Like working an earth mover or something. My b-in-law said I'd be a good fighter pilot, because you need all the feet/hands/brain manipulating the levers anshit. I had no love for games like baseball and football. It was more the machine in hand and compete this way. So from high school on it was all about racing, preparing the machine, HFBid holding a ball w/out moving parts! It was more about The Mental Game at the tree or grid.

I preferred it being a sport of 1 on 1, not some team effort kind of game. It's the danger, the [thinking] combat, the [personal] win. That mental game inside yourself that you are in control of that day. You put your mind to it and the rest is up to the 5-points getting it done.

The Sport Of Multitasking

"My b-in-law said I'd be a good fighter pilot, because you need all the feet/hands/brain manipulating the levers anshit. I had no love for games like baseball and football."

I think you probably would have been a great pilot.That was my real first want...to fly helicopters...and I did(not solo though...but damn close)...for about two or three years as a 14 yr old...hell maybe even 12...not exactly sure now.Got to go up with a bunch of different pilots...I washed their cars at the airport for em.Had an instructor that regularly took me with him...guy was a great pilot...old school...went from piston engines to turbines...Good times.

The fast sportbike was the closest thing to flying...using all the senses..feeling it.Little late in life..but I'm doing what I love...now.Good post Hub....;)

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 12/20/2014 @ 2:38 PM *

What great and insightful words, guys. Riding is mostly a solitary activity. ..but there is no greater thrill than riding real fast with others. The experience of being in the moment and to be watching the event at the same time is as good as it gets........now I'm thinking, you ever been with a REALLY HOT girlfriend and happened to notice you had a clear view of the bedroom mirror? Sorta like that.

TMI, I know. I know.

I'm a social creature.
You want to have a beer with me?
Unless you're a dick, I'm in.
But I pretty much never drink alone.
I just don't enjoy it without the company of others.
For me being on the bike is similar.
Of course i can get out on my own and every now and then i do, but the real enjoyment for me is experiencing the joys of getting away on the bikes with others.

* Last updated by: yannih on 12/21/2014 @ 3:31 AM *

Unless you have a passenger, riding is a solitary activity even if you're in a group. You're still doing everything as an individual. Riding in a group, it's basically a bunch of individuals doing a similar thing at the same time. This doesn't really do anything for me, my ability to have fun isn't dependent on others being around to I guess to be there?

I see some advantages and disadvantages of riding in a groups.

Advantages can be safety. If someone breaks down or wrecks, more people more resources. This is questionable though, if everyone is just kind of mechanically or medically equal there's no real advantage. There's some potential to learning how to ride faster. But that's a very specific situation. Typical street rider yahoos (like me) other than time at the wheel really have very little ability to train other's how to ride faster. Unless you're learning from someone who's an experienced and successful racer and riding coach, considering groups a learning session is highly questionable.

Disadvantages seem to outweigh advantages. While there are safety in numbers, it's likely to encourage over-stepping skills increasing risks of accidents. One upping gets old, at least for me, especially if there's people that always have to have the spotlight on them. As far as learning, it's just as likely two street yahoos trying to teach each other are teaching each other as many bad habits as any good habits. One of the worst things about group riding is you're stuck with the group, whether you're having a good time or not.

When I had my prior bike, I rode in groups frequently. I've found my 14R experience to be more enjoyable than my VF1000F. But one big difference is today I mainly ride alone. The thought has began to cross my mind that maybe it's not the bikes so much, but the difference in group riding.

"One of the worst things about group riding is you're stuck with the group, whether you're having a good time or not."

Don't know what groups you ride with Vic but there is no Harley attitude with us where some fool says
"I am the group leader and you will not go past me"!

With us, you want to go faster, you go faster. You want to go easy, you go easy.
You want to keep riding with the group, you do. You want to go home, you go.
All ride at their own pace and make their own decisions.

Me personally, I would much much rather share the amazing experiences motorbikes offer with others rather than do it on my own.

But good luck to those who prefer being out there on their own and not having to worry about others, faster or slower.

However you are 100% correct that group rides can promote people trying to keep up with quicker riders and overstep their limits...

* Last updated by: yannih on 12/24/2014 @ 2:26 AM *

While there are safety in numbers, it's likely to encourage over-stepping skills increasing risks of accidents.

One of the worst things about group riding is you're stuck with the group, whether you're having a good time or not.

This is an interesting conversation.I rarely ride with others...because as was mentioned by Yannih..if I want to go faster(or slower)I can do that without feeling I'm being judged.I can stop when I want...go where I want...and all that.

BUT...I found that while out riding...occasionally I will come up on a group of other riders.I hang back...behind..and follow for however long I want.Since I don't want them to feel like I'm 'intruding'(which some groups feel)...I ride their pace...for however long.In doing that...I've found a place inside of peace...I'm not running the show.Riding in a group can be a very good thing...and sometimes...your 'pace' gets put into perspective when you're with others...and that's a good thing...riding a high powered rocket like ours;)

"One of the worst things about group riding is you're stuck with the group"....no,you're not actually.If you are...'stuck with the group' and you're NOT liking it....stop being 'stuck with the group'.It's your choice...your ride.Someone saying(and I've done this myself)..."hey,I would've been 'over there' if it wasn't for 'them' or whatever...is a phantom ball and chain.I can do or go wherever I choose...I don't HAVE to be upset with others because I can't make a decision about what I feel is right for me.Course...you have to KNOW what's right for you.Not everyone knows this about themselves.

Some people like feeling connected to others...sharing a common thing...it's natural.It feels good.Some don't...there's way more to 'riding in a group' than just a bunch of people 'doing the same thing'...way more...I think it's great Yannih and others enjoy that sort of thing.It does take a certain amount of restraint if your riding a bike like these.Can only build character IMO.Letting go...choosing to follow instead of leading all the time...it's a good thing;)Sharing the 'ride' and life with others...all good.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 12/21/2014 @ 11:01 AM *

You guys read so much into shit that isn't there. I never said I hated group rides and that every group ride was miserable. I rode in all kinds of rides, and enjoyed them all of course. There were times we just went out and cruised around, times we went out and played, etc, all were fun. Just like now, sometimes I just go cruise around, sometimes (well mostly) I go out and play.

When talking about groups, there's a lot of group dynamics. Consider groups of basically random people and friends, or even very close personal friends. There's going to be different dynamics in phantom ball and chain. Different groups are going to have different expectations.

Yannih and Grn - You're talking about riding with groups but still being free to do what you want. These are scenarios that could very well play out in reality. The real question is at what point are you group riding, or no longer group riding?

Close friends
Consider you're riding with a group of very close friends and decide to pull way ahead so far that you lose them. You're having so much fun you decide to skip the first stop and go to the next one 20 miles down the road. So you stop and wait. They don't come. After about 45 minutes you get a call "dude where are you?...we've been looking for you thought you must've wrecked."

Random group
Consider this example. You're out riding solo, get to a great road and see a group of similar bikes at a stop point. You pull in and end up chatting with them. You all end up talking about riding as a group. You're like "well hey, I like to ride fast" and they're like "oh yeah, we do to". So it's on. Cool, you're part of a group, a lot better than riding solo.

You volunteer to start off. Quickly you realize their version of fast is vastly different from yours. You realize no one's going to keep up with you if you ride anywhere near your usual pace. So you pick up the pace to increase your level of fun. You end up pulling so far ahead that you can't even tell if they're behind you.

So 30 miles down the road you pull off for a break with a huge smile on your face. Man, what a ride you're thinking. Sit down on the bench and decide that you'll wait for the group to catch up. 15 minutes later they pull in. They all get off their bikes and start talking about that turn and how Ted ran wide in that corner, and Jeff did a wheelie, but they aren't talking to you.

So you're like "oh hey guys good ride?" And they're like "yeah thanks" and go back to talking to each other. You get the point and decide to get on your bike and continue on the way.

Are you really group riding at this point?

Ha ha Vic, who's reading too much shit into this now?

I simply enjoy riding with others whether it's at my pace, their pace, or whether we get separated for a while because im quicker or they're quicker.
In my experience there has always been an unspoken balance that all are happy with.
Otherwise they wouldn't be there in the first place.
And everyone catches up in the end and discuses their own points of view and experiences no matter who they were or werent riding with and what pace they were at.

Ultimately if one prefers to ride in a group they should.
Same if one enjoys the lone wolf approach.
I guess my point could possibly be when riding in a group you have both of these options available depending how you feel on the day.

There is no right or wrong.
Im sure everyone would agree that all that matters is we are on our bikes...

But do appreciate your point of view Vic.

* Last updated by: yannih on 12/21/2014 @ 12:52 PM *

Yes I get all that Yannih. But this is where the whole idea that you want to group ride falls apart. If it's enough for you to get together to discuss your experiences, then what's the difference between you and 5 of your friends riding the same roads over different days and getting together Saturday to discuss it? If you're riding so much faster than everyone else (or slower) and aren't in anyway part of some grouping together you're not really group riding. You're just all doing your own thing at what happens to be the same time and location.

It would basically be like meeting friends for lunch, and you all sit at different tables and order food at different times. Then go back to a house 2 hours later and talk about it.

I know this probably won't make any sense to you. But I hope it does on some level.

I guess something to directly relate it to is telling us here about a ride or track experience. What's the value? We weren't there riding with you, experiencing it at the same time and place. So what's the point? (rhetorical questions)

It all depends on who you ride with. If someone wants to be competitive, they'll end up way out ahead of the others. If someone likes being in the group, they just need to hold back. It's always an option to stop and ask if anyone wants to get in front safely. If they do, they can slow down and wait for the rest to catch up. It's probably like weight training, you can talk about it with other enthusiasts but to train with someone with much different goals is not very helpful. You can still belong to the same gym though..

Vic, its not a matter of anything falling apart...
Thats the beauty of it all.

You may not understand why group riding is for some just as others don't really understand riding alone.
It just doesn't matter.
Don't try to dissect it.
No justification is required.
We are all different and like different things.
Just accept it.

As long as we are out there and riding the way we want to, it's all good.

Live and let live...

* Last updated by: yannih on 12/21/2014 @ 2:20 PM *

Rook said.."It's always an option to stop and ask if anyone wants to get in front safely"...LOL...in MY experience...they always want me to "get out and ride ahead"...you know...like...'get F outta here ya rice burner'.

I mean...shit...I don't even have to be in a group setting...totally going the other way;)

Even the wildlife's out to get me......

this one just yelled as I went by..."kiss my arse prick"

I'm like...WTF did I do?

It's a brutal world out there...group ride or not;)

But then...there's ALWAYS Karma....TWO for one baby....two fer one:)

Maybe they'll think twice next time they wanna diss me and my 'rice burner'....

LIFE IS GOOD..isn't it?LOL!!!

Vic said...talking about waiting for his 'random group'..."15 minutes later they pull in"...hell,that's just enough time to grab a ceegar,drink a Monster Coffee drink...take a leak...and get back out for some more fun....fuck that 'random group'(and the 'horsies' they took so long to arrive with)..... Probably a bunch of assholes anywayLOL!!!No doubt posers...I'll ride over posing anyday!!!!They can watch the mighty Ninja burn rubber and pull a 10'o'clock as he 'leaves the building'....;)

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 12/21/2014 @ 5:13 PM *

I've always been a rather solitary animal. To me riding is immersive and joyous and the bike IS my companion. Like I told the attendant at my favorite parking lot one day, pointing to my ZRX at the time, "It's the only honest relationship I have" :)

Here's my 2 cents.
I agree that group riding has advantages and disadvantages.
I belong to a club so we have group rides(breakfast runs) all the time with different bikes that go at different speeds. We agree on a place to stop and then all the faster riders go together, and the rest meet up at the agreed stop. Works like a charm. On longer roads it's the same.
As for "one upmanship" it's normally only the new guys that have something to prove. They soon get schooled and settle down

My best riding however is with my wife. She rides her own bike, and we can do breakfast runs, long runs in fact any rides we like and the company is always great.

When I ride, I feel like it's the one thing I do that I know I am good at. I am one with my machine, modulating the throttle and brakes, swinging into and out of bends. Even with my wife on board it is still a solitary endeavor. I have a few trusted friends who often accompany me but I also like leading newer riders and showing them how to ride a bike in the twisties but still doing it safely. I grew up as a shy kind of nerdy type. My family was shocked when I started racing motorcycles. But, on a bike, I am confident and at peace. That's what it does for me.

Mad

Mad's great description reminds me of an amazing story.

About three years ago, four of us rode into a small country town in NSW named Rylstone after a top day in the saddle to stay the night at the local pub.
As we came in there was a Ducati Diavel and a Repsol Honda CBR1000 parked outside a cafe and the two owners in full leathers were sitting at a table outside.
As the Diavels were fairly new at that time I went over to check the bike out and talk to the owner.
I also said g'day to the Honda owner and noticed he was quite fidgity but didnt give it a second thought as I was really talking mostly to the Ducati guy about his new bike.
After a while the two guys said they needed to hit the road and make a move.
As the Honda owner got up and walked to his bike, I noticed he had a very pronounced shake in both his arms and hands.
I watched and this guys shake just didn't stop. I asked the Diavel owner what was going on.
He advised his mate had Parkinson's disease.
I asked how he could possibly ride any bike let alone such a high performance motorcycle with that serious condition?
He suggested I go and ask the Honda rider myself.
So I did.
The Honda guy advised the disease was quite progressed and affected his daily life substantially.
And unfortunately it was getting worse.

But here's where it gets amazing.

Anytime he mounted his motorbike and started to ride, the shaking stopped.
It was the only activity in his life that had this affect.
Obviously he and his doctors couldnt explain why but he spent as much time on his bike as he could as it was the only time he could forget about his condition for a while and feel well again.

And off he went with the Diavel rider at a fair old rate!

That night the beers tasted just a little bit better knowing that a bloke who was struggling big time health wise had found an out by doing something he loved.

All he had to do to cure himself for a little while was simply get onto his bike and just ride...

* Last updated by: yannih on 12/24/2014 @ 2:31 AM *

That's VERY cool....poor guy...but glad he's got some relief...even if short lived;)Thanks for that Yannih...real cool;)

Yannih's story reminded me that, when I was racing I had terrible allergies. I would be sitting in the pits with watering eyes and sneezing constantly, nose running,the whole thing. But, as soon as I got on my bike and closed the visor, all symptoms stopped. The entire race I was fine, after I got off and sat down..all the allergy stuff came back. I think it was because allergies are caused by the bodie's inappropriate reaction to a percived threat. When I was on the bike, and I had REAL concerns to deal with, my body was able to eliminate the allergy reaction. So, a little while later I tried hypnotherapy to get rid of the problem. To this day my allergy symptoms are about 95% less than before.
Mind over matter sometimes works.

Mad

That's interesting. The reaction is controlled by your nervous system. Maybe a shot of adrenaline counteracts it. It will definitely dialate your bronchial tubes if you have asthma which is one common allergy reaction.

There have been studies about rhythmic visual, audio, and sensory input helping parkinson's sufferers. They attach vibrating pods to the wrists that output a rhythmic vibration, and it improved walking ability. The bike vibration, combined with audio/video input, adrenaline, and pleasure is just the distraction his system needs. Awesome that he could discover it. Something else I was reading was that vibrating footpads help people that have nerve damage in their feet from diabetes walk with more stability.