Doesn't Kawasaki mention revving the motor in idle?I think so...maybe this is why...course...that wouldn't explain how draggers get away with doing this....but they do power away within several seconds.Wonder where most of them keep their oil levels at?

I filled my 2012 one time up to the top of the sightglass...kinda accidentally.The 'level' was over the top line...filling the glass totally.I rode it like that...for a bit.I couldn't figure out(during the ride)why it was feeling....underpowered just a bit.Something didn't feel right.I got home...checked the level again...still full.I drained some out..brought it back to 'between' the upper and lower level lines.Went for a ride...this time...she felt really good.Had I sat there and heated that oil up(and expanded it) with a lot of N revs...IDK...maybe she would have locked up...?????

started to put the puzzle together. Within days, what are the odds I find two guys revving piss out of their bike standing still.

* Last updated by: untamed on 11/18/2014 @ 10:38 AM *

Maybe my terminology/wording or understanding of the problem is wrong, but when a really good Kawasaki technician tells me it's the oil that locked it up and it's sorted then I'm just relieved that it's sorted. I'm no bike mechanic by a long shot just like to do things myself. It's times like these that you learn and I appreciate the comments/suggestions and advice from "those in the know"

Revving the piss out of my bike is not something I do or ever have so this was a bit new to me. None the less lesson learnt.

I think I owe the technician a lot more credit than what I originally gave him

I would not be so quick with that. Story sounds good but I'm Not buying it. Blue smoke filling your garage would have been your first sign. A single drop or two would have been a full warning that something is wrong. In order for oil to fill the hoses, fill the sloping Airbox, then spill over stacks ,,,, Well, that's allot of oil? It didn't happen. you would know.

We could go on for hours explaining this one but no need. Hydraulic lock equals damage. If I can find a picture of a outboard motor I dropped off the back of a boat at wide open throttle I can show you what Hydraulic Lock can do.

I did however ask him to have a look at the stutter after he changed the plugs.

Ask for the old plugs. Would love to see a pic of those.

I find two guys revving piss out of their bike standing still.

Yikes, I must ask, what RPM did you rev your bikes up to ? Remember low RPM stutter is the goal here. No need to be revving the piss out of it. This is why I'm thinking maybe I should take a step back here. I could miss something and fuck you guys up. Especially if your redlining your bikes in Neutral. I hope that's not the case.

Low RPM idle test is a great indicator in showing us how much fuel needs to be pulled at 6000 feet of elevation to give you a 13.5 AFR. This New fuel % number can be carried over into your 2% row directly where the fuel tracer jumps. Do you understand ? If so we can move forward.

After we arrive at the exact AFR, next step is to go into your AFR table and turn those Area's of concern off.

The Low RPM 2% and 5% rows are Notoriously Hard to tune. After you have removed the area of concern you no longer have to worry about this bike running Rich in the area of stutter.

Cycling your wrist back and forth in town riding will make a mess of your maps if AFR table is left turned on in this low rpm area.

What we are trying to eliminate is your O2 sensor seeing Rich then lean, Rich then lean. Set up this way keeps Auto Tune from going into a slamming effect.

It's possible here in lies our stutter Area. Make sense ??? We need to get this out of the way before we can go into tuning the bike to your Exact AFR that is built into the map I sent you.

In short we are making your AFR Exactly 13.5 where the stutter occurs. After fueling is for sure out of the way we can Go ahead and say "yes sound is normal" .

I am now realising how hard all this is to explain over the Net. I'm also starting to wonder if I'm making any sense at all.
This may also explain why Dyno Jet does not provide much information on how to use Auto Tune. All the instructions you get from them is "ride the bike" UGH !

If you would still like to continue let me know. If not I completely understand why. Explaining all this hurts the head.

I'm optimistic and a religeous man, so pray hard and still believe in miracles.
Maybe I misunderstood or didn't here him right when he explained how the oil going into the cylinder/airbox caused the problem.
None the less he has nothing to gain giving me back a bike that isn't fixed properly. He is a very well known and well respected Kawasaki technician thus I took it to him. He knows the 14 very well.

"I converted the standard headers from just behind the CO2 sensor and have a 63mm mid pipe all the way to the canister.
Had a dealer(best Kawasaki tuner in RSA) Install a PCV with auto tuner and optimizer for the CO2 sensor".

Did ever act like this in the factory config?

63 MM...stock is 2.25...right?(inches)That's a pretty big jump in airflow.Pick yer poison...replace midpipe with factory...then ride with the other items on there.See how that does.OR...disable all aftermarket stuff...reinstall pair...ride with 63MM midpipe...see how she does.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 11/18/2014 @ 11:18 PM *

So she's back, my prayers were answered. Tests/scrutiny didn't show anything wrong or permanent damage. After all the tests and scrutiny ran her on the dyno. Results as you can see pretty ok. This was with Romans map and Optimiser back in. Pair pipe blocked.

Chris From Dynojet came back to me on the Optimiser as well.

Adding the O2 Optimizer is optional. Adding it will make the stock closed loop range a bit richer than stock for improved performance. If you don’t have it, you engine will run no different than it does now in the stock closed loop range. You can find more details about the part in the attached install guide.

I can't attac the installation guide but it says this

Notes:
• When this module is installed it will control the closed loop area of the motorcycle. The closed loop area is highlighted to the right. The module is designed to achieve an AFR target of around 13.6:1. If you desire a different AFR call tech support at 800-992-4993
• If you are using a Powercommander with this module input values of 8 in the highlighted area. If you are using an Auto tune module do NOT input target AFR values in this same area.
• On this model closed loop is only active in 4-6th gears. Because of this it is recommended to put the PCV in GEAR ADVANCED mode. This will allow full control of the fuel curve in gears 1-3rd.

Initial ride - decel rumble so slight its almost non existent. No back fire. Unfortunately Pissing with rain here so can't get to ride, but will see how the Stutter is when I get a chance.

* Last updated by: untamed on 11/23/2014 @ 12:57 AM *

So she's back, my prayers were answered. Tests/scrutiny didn't show anything wrong or permanent damage.

Phew, Stressssss over. Congrats, very happy to hear.

After all the tests and scrutiny ran her on the dyno. Results as you can see pretty ok. This was with Romans map and Optimiser back in. Pair pipe blocked.

Must say your hp #'s look really good. Maybe to good for 6000 feet. 195hp SAE is one Big number. Your torque #'s on the other hand are Not Possible. Shown below is a Example to give you idea of the horsepower that is required to cross over the 150lbs Torque line. Not that 157 would not be truly Awesome.

Pic shows Turbocharged ZX14R running 4lbs of Boost.

No back fire. Unfortunately Pissing with rain here so can't get to ride, but will see how the Stutter is when I get a chance.

Sounds good. Did you by chance get to keep the old spark plugs ?

* Last updated by: Romans on 11/23/2014 @ 6:06 AM *

Chris From Dynojet came back to me on the Optimiser as well.

Untamed there can be no doubt that chris knows what he is talking about. I know I should walk away here but I must tell you what is bugging me.

Adding the O2 Optimizer is optional. Adding it will make the stock closed loop range a bit richer than stock for improved performance.

"Bit Richer" You are at roughly 6000 feet. Makes no sense that you really want to be adding fuel as you do not have the oxygen to burn it at 13.5 ? The test we did above was performed in order to find out how much fuel at low Rpm we needed to pull to get 13.5 : 1. Answer Given: with 02 optimizer removed you needed to pull roughly 12% to get 13.5. Do you see where I'm coming from ?

In short bike is running Rich due to elevation. Now we go install 02 optimizer which is going to make it run richer ??? If your bike had a AFR gauge on the dash you would see this is not the direction to go in.

If you are using an Auto tune module do NOT input target AFR values in this same area.

Ok, yes and No. You do need to test "YOUR BIKE" to prove that you do indeed have the 13.6. For this AFR table must be turned on. After trims given, Except them send to map. Only then should you turn off that area. You have all the tools on your bike to do this check. No need to take anyones word for it

The Test is same as above. No need to Rev Bike to high. Just enough to make sure outside air not getting to sensor.

As long as you are happy with how your bike runs is what matters. If you want to make bike run better you have the tools.

Romans, I think that 157 might be N-M... Which is roughly 115 ft lbs

* Last updated by: Fazer on 11/23/2014 @ 7:14 AM *

Puzzle: I go to a chopper site and entered a thread about someone revving the piss out of his bike, the pipes turned cherry red and asked if this was normal? Others chimed in and said it was not right. I said, did it start right up, no cough, no hesitation, ran like stink? He comes back and says yes to all. I said to stop revving an air cooled engine for 10 minutes standing still. End of 'normal' as if there is a problem? It was that simple and the others could not see it.

Now we segway to this thread, comes to find out you are also revving shit out of the bike with it standing still. WOT are the odds you were revving piss out of your bike on the same day the other guy was: I put the two and two together and here we are.

FI follows the altitude. Say 0 to 10 is 0 is sea level and 10 is 10,000 feet of elevation. The alt sensor is going to move .600 points in elevation and here is your number to calc off of. So as there is less air the higher you go, the alt sensor sends in a less air signal and that is the compensator or the beauty of FI. If you ran up the mountain with a carb, the same fuel dumps in, no change but the air is less. So the bike/car runs rich the higher you go.

FI compensates for this elevation. So if you are running rich @ 600 feet, yes, it will be somewhat less rich without a pc. But add the pc and the target numbers are going to remain rich and not run as well the higher you go with that 13a target stumbling along.

Once again, to remove the stumble, remove the pc [to verify] the pc caused the stumble, not a dirty air cleaner, bad plugs, etc. Once you know the stumbled cleared, then you can blame the map/opti/pc as the culprit, not revving piss out of the bike trying to diagnose it this way.

Torque is 157 Nm.
Clean forgot about the plugs though, will ask him.
When I get a chance to ride her properly, will give you better feedback.

Once again, to remove the stumble, remove the pc [to verify] the pc caused the stumble, not a dirty air cleaner, bad plugs, etc. Once you know the stumbled cleared, then you can blame the map/opti/pc as the culprit, not revving piss out of the bike trying to diagnose it this way.

Once you know the stumbled cleared, then you can blame the map/opti/pc as the culprit, not revving piss out of the bike trying to diagnose it this way.

Agree, we moved into making sure AFR was in the 13.5 zone in the area of stumble. If it is, this info helps us move on.
All work in progress.

The stutter was not there when she was stock standard from the show room floor. It only showed itself after I changed the exhaust. Stutter was there before I put the pc and auto tune in. Have checked the air filter and plugs as well.

Ok,

Bike now has New Plugs. Check

Bike Has clean AiR Filter. Check

Bike Runs proper AFR in area of stutter ?

If the answer is Yes and we still have issues New discussion begins.

If Answer is No, lets get the AFR to 13.6 so we can rule it out.

Stutter was there before

Once homework is complete we are back to sentence above. Pipe Change and it's normal.

I'm still curious about this 'stutter'...just what it is.The stock configuration DOES have a momentary hiccup when gearing into 2nd from 1st...at low rpms.It's not however a 'continuing' hiccup once the shift is made and the rpm stays the same.It's right at the shift..that split second of adding a SMALL amount of throttle.Adding MORE throttle at that shift...it does not do this.I think anyone can cause this thing to happen...Is this what is being referred to as a 'stutter'?

It only showed itself after I changed the exhaust. Stutter was there before I put the pc and auto tune in.

Ever hear of 'snuff-or-nots?'

Stumble out the sonic. Here is one rendition of a 'stumblesnuff.' The deal is to upset the air flow. I can open this wide or leave the neighborhood somewhat quieter.

1. My first map was the better ride and I should have caught that first thing about the pipe, BUT?*
2. My opti is not going to help and I should have mentioned this first out, but if one pipe is not the same out of that same jig, same bends and it still comes out as a snowflake with its own reverb/ebb and flow, where is that hat to eat don't chew know.
3. My bike is running fine with the throttle on, yes? Of course it is. It's only when the reversion and expiration mingle in the middle and now change that move is a snuff of the sonic. OR buy a different pipe. This guy is unique as a snowflake and will keep stumbling no matter the mapisscrap thrown at it. Is it still there with all the maps and garage revving, yes?

And if you bought that same pipe, out of the same jig, same bends, it's another snowflake that may not gargle. *?Unless you can video the noise as you lift and it shakes the camera is the stutter or a non-even air gargle?* Which is it?

A. I have a pronounced: shakes the mirrors kind of stumble/stutter upon re-throttle.
B. I have novice ears: I need to take a Man-Pill and know it's just an air gargle on lift, no mirror shaking stumble/stutter on re-accel.

Nice pipe BTW....LOL!!!You likey?

Yes Sir. No popping, has some grunt built back in it. WOT is not to like.

LOL!!!