Two more questions:
Q1. Is it okay to use the bikes tach?
A. Yes. Turn up ears too. Too low an idle pounds the crank. Too high an idle keeps you pushing into the turns.

Q2. Is Engine vacuum sync for idle and small throttle openings?
A. Yes, Flow through a bypass port is from idle to WOT. There is no closing the screws when running, right? So you get this smoothing effect no matter if the screws are closed or slightly open, but in balance with each other. This is not a full turn out kind of carb setting. This is who enters faster to fill the void, so you are better off on the closed needle to 1/4 open. It's not about the ride, it's more about the 'harmonic induced out-of-sync' you want to keep away from the crank. It's not that you don't want a smooth idle or fine control of very small throttle openings, you see that as a given. A good sync IS really what you are trying to accomplish since you took all that time to setup, then struggle at the settings. It's going to make a big diff. Make that strive for perfection.. even smoother still.

Q3. We don't have a master T-body on the 14. They're all adjustable. Which T-body should I use to calibrate the mano?
A. None. The 2-stage uses either 1-4 and sync each other or 2-3, or 1-3, or 2-4. No matter how you look at it, the main plates will dial-in with the center screw; using any two opposed cylinders. The non-adj-mano is auto-adj by its own vacuum pull. In other words, with the tiny restrictor inserts into the hose and each vacuum is non-adjust, the cheaper mano does not have that preset like the one in the video he's using. That video had the new style mano with the pre-setup for the liquid tubes to dial-in on the one cylinder. That's why you take compression to find out how much vac the one has over the other(s), and now you compensate for the lower compression cylinder.

So by leveling the low and high compression main plates, this [off compression between cylinders] will hang the idle up and it slowly comes down. That's with 4 individual slides, but get the idea about too much compression on the one cylinder? With even compression, the throttle is more snappy-crisp, more responsive, if all cylinders are close to the same compression. So see how the one screw or one shaft would have to twist more to let the air move in faster than the other [to compensate]?

Book wise, that says to just move the needles and not the main plates, right?
See my loophole vs book? They one stage you and I double your pleasure, double your fun.

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the cheaper mano does not have that preset like the one in the video he's using. That video had the new style mano with the pre-setup for the liquid tubes to dial-in on the one cylinder.

I have the Sync-Pro so I have to calibrate.

That's why you take compression to find out how much vac the one has over the other(s), and now you compensate for the lower compression cylinder.

The cylinder with the highest compression should be the one with the highest vacuum as well. If it's necessary t calibrate a mano, the strongest cylinder is the one to use. [EDIT: Not necessarily true. The cylinder that has the weakest compression did not have the lowest vacuum. The cylinder with the strongest compression did also have the strongest vacuum but I do not believe strong compression automatically means strong vacuum. It would also have to do with how the bypass valves are set.]

but get the idea about too much compression on the one cylinder? With even compression, the throttle is more snappy-crisp, more responsive, if all cylinders are close to the same compression. So see how the one screw or one shaft would have to twist more to let the air move in faster than the other [to compensate]?

Yes, I believe I got it.

Book wise, that says to just move the needles and not the main plates, right?

Actually the book procedure is to balance the highest vacuum between the pairs by adjusting the throttle plates. Once that is done, if the highest vacuum is not still in spec, adjust the bypass screws so that the highest vacuums are equal and in spec.

See my loophole vs book? They one stage you and I double your pleasure, double your fun

...and don't forget, double, double your refreshment! Yes, I don't think I can leave it at balancing the highest vacuums between the pairs. I want them all equal and I would like them to be all in spec, max if possible.

It occurs to me that without having a vacuum test using a gauge, I will not know if the vacuum is in spec or not. I did however do a compression test. It is probably safe to assume that since all compressions were in spec, the vacuum is probably in spec as well (compression and vacuum have the same source so the forces should be equal). [EDIT: wrong. See previous edit.]

Also, it should be safe to aim at balancing all vacuums to the T-body with the highest vacuum (vacuum would decrease with engine wear so the highest vacuum is not going to be too lean).

* Last updated by: Rook on 10/17/2015 @ 5:39 PM *

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Say the strongest pull is who has the most compression. Say that suck up the tube raises the highest amount of liquid. Say, how could you raise the other blade if all screws are closed, you are now looking at using the one best cylinder, then use the next best of the two cylinders on the other side. Now, if you move the main screw, are you not lowering the higher compression cylinder to compensate for the other cylinder that can't pull that much vacuum so it takes moving the better compressed cylinder closed at the blade so the other can catch up more or less, right?

And say all 4 cylinders had equal compression. Now, watch as the machine starts its cut for the t-body low screw threads. Say the one tap begins to cut at 12 o'clock, and the next cut, the tap stopped and now is at 2 o'clock. Look at how you'd turn the low screws out by bottoming out the turns, count 1/4 out and do you think the taper of the needle will flow the same at 12 as it would at 2 o'clock? No. That's another reason why you do not send the needle home, touching metal to metal. You squeeze the oring once you compress the spring, then the oring kicks in, but stop there.

Then, this is where you know if moving a screw out and it drops the liquid, you run leaner the more turns out, rather than turned in. See how book procedure is to balance the highest vacuum between the pairs by adjusting the throttle plates first? Pretty strange because 2 cali screws are closed, 3-4 are open for the vac pump and open for the suck into #4 cylinder. So, if the highest vacuum is not still in spec, adjust the bypass screws so that the highest vacuums are equal and in spec makes no sense if 1-2 are closed.

That's why I close my lows, sync my main plate first, open to 1/4 out and sync the screws from there. I know my main is equal, I now blend my lows together. Yes, I could bleed off the highest comp cylinder to adjust my mano and that style you have.

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Now, if you move the main screw, are you not lowering the higher compression cylinder to compensate for the other cylinder that can't pull that much vacuum so it takes moving the better compressed cylinder closed at the blade so the other can catch up more or less, right?

That's what the book tells you to do. But yeah, you are sacrificing vacuum on the best cylinder to bring up vacuum in the second best. [EDIT: It seemed more like by using the center screw, the vacuum could only be adjusted up or down on Tbodies 3 and 4. 1 and 2 did not seem to be effected much as far as I could tell.]

I do not know if I'm comfortable closing any bypass screws yet. The Motion Pro pilot screw driver has click stops which is nice for keeping track of how much you turned.. I can see click stopping right at the screw 0% open position. If I keep turning because I do not know if I'm turning agaist a clickstop or against the needle threaded all the way into the delicate jet, I'll ruin the jet. That might be too dicey for me right now. Maybe when I get familiar enough with this tool I'll feel onfident enough to close the valves all the way. [EDIT: Closing the bypass screws is no big deal. The bypass screws are not hard to turn and you will definitely be able to tell when the screw is all the way tightened in. It is not possible to torque real hard on the 90 degree screwdriver so that helps prevent damaging the bypass valves if you close one off. I turned as hard as I could twist on the nob of the screwdriver (thinking the screw must be hard to turn)and it did not hurt the valve. I'd recommend not tightening the bypass screws down per Hub's admonition but it did not seem to be something that was nearly as delicate as I thought. If you feel a screw stop, stop turning. that simple. Also, the click stops on the pilot screwdriver handle are not very helpful. The bit may slip or it may not be seated in the slot so you really don't know if you turned or not until you look at the screw with a mirror and flashlight.]

One thing I can see is that #4 T-body is going to be very difficult to adjust because of the bracket they put right across the center of the bypass screw. I will need to grind down a bit so it has a very skinny shank in order to get on that screw squarely. I hope I don't need to adjust #4 bypass screw.
[EDIT: grinding down a bit will not help. Use a 1" small straight slot bit. Also, it is necessary to bend the crankshaft sensor bracket out just a little to open up enough clearance to get the bit in bypass #4. No big deal, just a minor PITA.]

I'm waiting on mano fluid refill to arrive Tuesday. We'll see how it goes.
[EDIT: definitely buy a bottle of mano fluid if you get a SyncPro. They often come with almost no fluid in them.]

* Last updated by: Rook on 10/17/2015 @ 5:55 PM *

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Make #4 your main as in do not touch, now run the mano as if it had a preset t-body or carb. Or, grind the bit down and assume the position. Find a range of bits and grind them down as needed.

You click and it binds, it depends on how delicate your hand can tell? You've wrenched enough. Time for the feel. I have to sneak up to the same clicks on my stick. It's pretty simple is the think. Go slow, drag your fingers around the ball of the stick, it's a 'slipper clutch feel.' Get it? The load is so soft at the clicks, she no click to the next in such a way your fingers slip off.

Not much more I can tell you except the hand to hand heat rub is that both take a shitheory>> applies. You mung that taper, you munged the body. That's why the mano steers you away from it, if say there is no need at this point to move them. First check to see where they are at; adjust accordingly.

I'm wondering why you would need more fluid and not use what came with the kit? Did you use any 'step down' inserts into the hoses so the fluid more lifts and hangs, rather than being sucked up thru the tubes? Maybe wait for a set of those too?

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Make #4 your main as in do not touch, now run the mano as if it had a preset t-body or carb.

I think this is how it would go regardless of how much of a PITA it is to get to bypass screw #4. Cylinder #4 has the strongest compression so I'm betting it also has the most vacuum.

You click and it binds, it depends on how delicate your hand can tell? You've wrenched enough. Time for the feel.

Yes, I think I have a good feel but these are really delicate like almost watch maker delicate. I could probably take the bit off the screw and turn the tool between clicks then put it back on the screw...so as to dodge around the click stops. Being that careful, this would be a very long job. I don't think I have that kind of time right now.

I'm wondering why you would need more fluid and not use what came with the kit? Did you use any 'step down' inserts into the hoses so the fluid more lifts and hangs, rather than being sucked up thru the tubes? Maybe wait for a set of those too?

The fluid should be 1/4 inch from the top of the reservoirs. Mine were almost dry when I got the mano 4 years ago and still look the same today. It was probably sitting on a shelf for a long time before I got it or else they fill minimally to make you buy the refill. This stuff evaporates. Already have the brass stepdown jets that go into the tubes so I should be set.

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In that case: 4 golf tees and the atmo tube in the back of the mano; should be closed off for storage. Just set it up and see where you're at? The rest will show itself at the tube levels. I think you've got the theory; now the practice.

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Thanks, Hub. I'll let you know how it goes.

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Update: No adjustments yet but having come this far, I can't imagine turning back. This is a hell of a lot of work to turn a couple screws. Bypass #3 and #4 you cannot get your pilot screwdriver bit in squarely unless you get the throttle bodies wiring out of the way. ..you know the thing that goes to the Power Commander connectors??? --that thing. Also, the bracket for the crankshaft sensor connectors that passes right in front of bypass screw #4.

good luck removing the screw that holds that bracket to the T-bodies. For some reason, they used phillips screws to fasten whatever brackets are on the T-bodise and they are tight as hell. Difficult to remove without striping the head even if you can get a screwdiver on them. Here's our cranshaft sensor bracket screw. You could get an allen wrench in there but unfortunarely, Kaw lacked the foresight to use a machine screw.

The only solution was to bend the bracket forward out of the way and cut the ziptie that retains the throttle bodies wires. Hopefully i will be able to proceed with the sync in a couple days.

* Last updated by: Rook on 9/26/2015 @ 4:36 PM *

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When I thought about throttle body sync when I did the valves, I determined the only actual way to make the adjustments was to take the TB off, adjust on the bench, put it back on and repeat until correct. Way to much BS for me to deal with.

I did adjust the 4 small screws on the top of each TB you can access with the motion pro right turn driver - not sure exactly what that was doing but I adjusted until they were all equal and stopped.

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The flow bench idea occurred to me as well but that would be insane to pull these in and out to test and retest. Actually, why bother with the flow bench if you need to install to verify the results of the adjustment anyway? EH- the only way to do it is with the T-bodies installed.

If you turned the 4 straight slot screws until the vacuums balanced, you got 'er done. You balanced by adjusting the bypass valves only. If you ask me, that seems preferable to adjusting the center screw which changes the factory set angle of the throttle plates.[EDIT: it probably won't be possible to balance with the bypass screws alone unless the Tbodies are pretty close to being in sync already.]

* Last updated by: Rook on 10/17/2015 @ 5:59 PM *

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BTW, cruderudy, were you able to use the straight slot bit that came with the Motion-Pro tool? It seems like it might be a little too small. [EDIT: Cruderudy says it works for the bypass screws. It is definitely not possible to use the tiny phillips bit that comes with the motion-Pro screwdriver to reach the center adjuster. I used a small 2" phillips bit for that.]

* Last updated by: Rook on 10/17/2015 @ 6:04 PM *

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Hub, anyone? Still can't get on bypass #4. I will need to remove the battery negative wires where they ground to the frame on the RH side of the battery box. You can see from the pic, if I have a 2" bit, these wires will interfere with the neck of the driver. I plan to hook up a jumper wire to connect the wires to the ground screw ...to clear space for the driver.
[EDIT: a 1" small straight slot worked for me. 2" was not necessary for the bypass screws. I don't think it was necessary to remove the ground wires to fit the 1" driver bit in there but it did help with visibility.]



Recommendation on what type of wire to use for the jumper? Strands/gauge? Will it matter much? I already have some ground eyes here but looks like they might not crimp onto a larger gauge wire like the battery cables are made of.

* Last updated by: Rook on 10/17/2015 @ 6:07 PM *

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Ground strap wise, you touch that starter button with strands of wire and it's going to catch fire, smoke, way too many amps to the starter via ground. So if you have to move the grounds, take a vice grip, clamp all of those in the jaw, jumper cable the vice grip, ground the other end of the jumper to the bike, start it, now make the attempt on the right side.

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Hoo-boy. Glad I asked that one. So clamp the two battery negative eyes along with the small quickshifter ground eye you see in the pic AND the jumper eye....all stacked like pancakes...in the vice grips. Connect the loose end of the jumper to the ground location on the frame/battery box with the ground screw.

Too clarify:
The idea here is to be certain all ground eyes are in tight contact rather than rely on a bolt, nut and washers to hold the eyes together on the jumper...right? loose contact while cranking on the starter = sparks flying, lots of resistance and fire hazard?

I was thinking of using a jumper wire with an eye on both ends, not the alligator clip kind of jumper. You think the vise grips will be any better than a real tight bolt? I'm picturing the ground eyes and jumper eye stacked and sandwiched between flat washers. The whole deal secured with a bolt and nut. Same as vice grips, no?

..and what kind of wire would be good for the jumper?

* Last updated by: Rook on 9/28/2015 @ 9:08 PM *

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Rook, yeah the right angle MP straight screw driver worked good.

The nut and bolt would perform the same function as the vice grip.

Use the same gage/diameter wire for the jumper, like a car battery jumper clamp/wire.

* Last updated by: cruderudy on 9/28/2015 @ 9:20 PM *

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Too clarify:
The idea here is to be certain all ground eyes are in tight contact = sparks flying, lots of resistance and fire hazard?

Key note: Well grounded is a must. When a starter is used, it must meet the same kind of wire gauge as the wire to the starter. When not using a starter, the smaller gauge wire like the harness ground wires can be used.

You think the vise grips will be any better than a real tight bolt?

Yes. Because the size of the lug [vice grip] has the jumper cable to bite into. Find bare metal as the other ground. Use the black ends or the red ends as a ground, that or piggy the red to a good ground, the black to the rear axle [something bare], the red clamped to the vice grip, the black clamped to the vice grip. Leave the shifter wire off off, just the OE eyelets clamped into the vice grip.

The whole deal secured with a bolt and nut. Same as vice grips, no?

Yes. So the grounds are hanging off on a bolt, now what do you do with them? Use a vice on the nut and bolt and here we are with double work? No, the whole point is one fast ass move, not find a nut, washers, this and by the time you set it all up, I've got the bike running and waiting... LOL

..and what kind of wire would be good for the jumper?

Are we without car jumper cables and vice grip? Here is this scenario:

Now your nut and bolt kicks in:
1. OE batt cable and ground eyelets only. Now add another ground wire to your nut and bolt setup.
2. Your plain old wire you have around like the size of the ground wires used, wrap the strands around the threads of the bolt, squeeze that between the nut/bolt/ground eyelets so you now see the one end of the ground-piggy. With the other end, wrap the strands around the frame's ground screw, and run that back into the bike, making sure you have it cut and made long enough to be out of your way.
3. Upon startup, simply push the nut and bolt onto the ground bolt, yeah, that one with the piggy ground wire you installed back on. That's your ground you didn't need to chase with the jumper cables. Hit the starter and do not move that battery cable [bolt] off the frame's ground bolt until the bike starts.
4. Once the bike runs, that piggy ground should be enough to keep the bike running. Feel the piggy wire for heat. Remember, the bigger the wire [doubled or tripled up] will absorb more heat and cool off better.

We on the same page with this loophole?

* Last updated by: Hub on 9/28/2015 @ 11:19 PM *

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In the generic, E is going to jump and likes to spike. So maybe you are better off using a screwdriver and really jam it hard onto that ground bolt. The heat might be a factor using fingers. The driver is your insulator. This is DC so you do not get shocked, just burned by the heat.

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Rook, yeah the right angle MP straight screw driver worked good.

Looks like it will reach all but that pesky #4 on my bike. I have a 2" bit that will work for #4.

The nut and bolt would perform the same function as the vice grip.
Use the same gage/diameter wire for the jumper, like a car battery jumper clamp/wire.

GOOD.

Yes. Because the size of the lug [vice grip] has the jumper cable to bite into. Find bare metal as the other ground. Use the black ends or the red ends as a ground, that or piggy the red to a good ground, the black to the rear axle [something bare], the red clamped to the vice grip, the black clamped to the vice grip. Leave the shifter wire off off,

Your picturing jumper cables with big ol' alligator clamps. I can see why you'd want to use vise grips to bite through the paint to ensure good contact. I was thinking about using a short piece of wire with an eyelet on each end, no paint, ground wire eyelets secured by bolts to jumper eyelet; other jumper eyelet secured by ground screw to frame.

just the OE eyelets clamped into the vice grip.

I think I have to include the quickshifter in the ground wire eyelet sandwich. The quickshifter is a wire that piggies between the stick coils and the stick coil wire connectors. That wire has constant duty even when the shifter is not being operated. ...or maybe the ground is just for the quickshifter LCD??? IDK, better include it in the stack just in case.

So the grounds are hanging off on a bolt, now what do you do with them? Use a vice on the nut and bolt and here we are with double work? No, the whole point is one fast ass move, not find a nut, washers, this and by the time you set it all up, I've got the bike running and waiting... LOL

Maybe if I knew what I was doing more I'd take the shortcut. The bike has sat for two weeks waiting to get synced already so no need to rush it now.

Are we without car jumper cables and vice grip? Here is this scenario:.....The heat might be a factor using fingers. The driver is your insulator. This is DC so you do not get shocked, just burned by the heat.

NO THANKS! fastass move, maybe but not for the Rookie. Yes though, on the same page with the type of wire. I'll look for some car battery cable at the auto supply. Got some crimp eyelets sitting here...that'll work.

Thanks, guys.

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Rook:

That screw that holds all of the grounds onto the frame mount point?

That screw is *really* soft, and will easily twist off the screw-top when even torqued gently.

I used just a bit too much torque on mine, and stripped off the screw top. Nothing remained but a nub. I could not get a visegrip on it because of the "tang" sticking out of the frame (seen clearly in your photo above).

I could not get an easy-out started on it either, I was royally screwed. I wound up building a new ground harness from heavy gauge scrap wire and using a torch for soldering, and mounting / grounding it to a different screw hole.

That was a 10 minute job what became a 4 hour job.

Be *really careful* torqueing that bolt back down when you're done playing.

Consider buying a new ground lug bolt to replace it (a harder steel one), and then be careful not to strip the hole, which would be much easier to torque manage, in my opinion.

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meb is right. This is where you run this in by hand and know tight is not a gorilla twist that is needed, but feel the bind and stop; not give it another neck snap tearing it off. Move the cable eyes and if you can't move them, they're tight.

Alligator clips and a few feet of wire. Ready for the next round?

1. Since these ground wires are in the way, remove only the ground wires.
2. Keep the battery ground cable in place and run the bolt back in snug-tight, not tight-tight, right?
3. The nut and bolt is back holding those ground wires, the alligator clips connect to the [eye] bolt and frame.

The bike starts without a jumper cable, the sub-harness grounds are back to being grounded via piggy gators.

* Last updated by: Hub on 9/30/2015 @ 10:17 PM *

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Thanks, meb. Yeah, I don't go real tight on bolts. I almost always use about 70% speced torque unless it seems crucial (like an engine mount) and even then, I'll usually go a little shy of spec. Lots of aluminum bolts now and those are usually just good and snug with some blue LokTite. That ground screw is one that I go just past snug on but not "Gorilla tight" as Hub calls it. Thanks for the heads up.

Yeah, I busted the head off a rotor bolt once and that was a pain. I got it out by using a scribing tool to catch an edge and then tap it around counterclockwise on the back with a hammer like using a chisel. It turned a little every tap but that was hours of work. Sometimes the tip of a reverse drill bit will catch and spin the bolt out. Otherwise, drill and insert a flat, sharp edged V shaped object ad twist. Never had to resort to such methods since the tapping on the scribing tool worked for me.

Move the cable eyes and if you can't move them, they're tight.

1. Since these ground wires are in the way, remove only the ground wires.
2. Keep the battery ground cable in place and run the bolt back in snug-tight, not tight-tight, right?
3. The nut and bolt is back holding those ground wires, the alligator clips connect to the [eye] bolt and frame.

The bike starts without a jumper cable, the sub-harness grounds are back to being grounded via piggy gators.

That's another great idea, Hub! Why didn't I think of that??? duh We eliminate the chance of a wire overheating while cranking the starter and we still have all wires grounded. I can't believe what a dimwit I am for not seeing that. That's actually pretty funny!

I picked up a grounding strap that is 15" long x ~5/15" wide ribbon of braided steel strands. Very flat. An eyelet on each end. It's for a car battery so should be ok for the bike. NO insulation at all but I guess that's ok for a ground wire ......although I would feel better wrapping it in electrical tape or shrink tube. Can those grounds make a small spark when they have uninsulated loose contact?....you bet your sweet biffy they do. Just saw a couple little sparks jump between the battery ground eye and the subharness ground when I was bolting them to said ground strap.

BTW, I also found it helpful to remove the large connector of the T-body subharness (where the PC5 piggies inline) from the bracket on the back of the engine. that whole wire can move out of the way easily toget the driver in there.

* Last updated by: Rook on 10/1/2015 @ 3:28 PM *

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Sync results soon to come. She's all set and ready for action tonight.

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Quick Update: Synco-Pro carb and T-body vacuum syncing tool -- not impressed. Not impressed at all. Expensive, plastic (ok, everything is plastic these days), LOTS of fuss to set up, requires more fussing to keep it from fucking up when you use it. ...and after all is said and done, doesn't even tell you the slightest idea of what your actual vacuum is in mmHg. No sir, not impressed at all. Maybe if it was sold for $20, it would be a worthwhile cheap alternative to vacuum gauges that you can buy for $30 more than this overpriced PITA. The whole problem is that the Sync-Pro does NOT have mercury like the old school manos did. Water has low surface tension. It breaks up easy. You get bubbles in the mano tubes every time you shut the bike off. Start it up and these bubbles fuck your calibration you just set. There are ways around it if you take the time to futs with it but for another $30, I,d take the vacuum gauges any day and I'd actually be able to see what my vacuum level is, too. Don't buy a Sync-Pro. Sorry, MP. You dropped the ball on this one.

Stay tuned for detailed review of the Sync-Pro. Also, T-body sync How-To.
[EDIT: after going through this whole process, I still feel the same about the Sync-Pro. I did figure out how to make it work but a set of vacuum gauges will work at easier and they will give you a good idea if not perfectly accurate vacuum measurement so you will know if your vacuum is in spec or not.]

Question, Hub: Would it be possible to adjust your T-body vacuums so the engine ran dangerously lean?
[EDIT: I do not believe this is something that needs to be worried about. If the exact vacuum can be determined with a vacuum gauge and the Tbodies have vacuum that is in spec, lean could not be a danger. If there is too much air coming in that would be the same as opening the throttle and the ECU would adjust fueling accordingly. I doubt dangerous AFR is something to worry about when syncing.]

* Last updated by: Rook on 10/17/2015 @ 6:21 PM *

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