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Thread: how-to for throttle body sync?

Created on: 03/13/14 06:19 PM

Replies: 125

Hub


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RE: how-to for throttle body sync?
07/07/15 12:07 PM

The lower the rpm, the more the vac exposes itself, the more you can chase a smoother pulse.

There are 4 holes in the throttle bodies:

1. Right behind the main plate is a hole that leads to the air screw. Once the air screw is open for the closed throttle side...

2... This second air hole can now add more air to the closed throttle. Aerodynamics play a big part in air flow. So we are now in the middle of that second air out on the [in valve] side of the throttle plate. Here is the argument sake I point out 3 variables to smoothing out the balance.
a. You're, 'I'm going to count out so many turns of the air screw' is where you land is not exactly at the other screw hole. So this is just a guess, you really need to see the aero happening thru sync.
b. If I were to tap the hole for the needle, my t-handle would be at say the 3-9 o'clock angle is tap this hole here. If I began the tap at the 12-6 o'clock position, I turn so many turns out, look at my thread to position now? By that starting point in the body to make a thread; is this variable of so many turns out.
c. My gas [reversion-for every action] is going to etch the brass needle and air is going to go around; that once tapered V. So I now change the needles via inspect or as per book.
d. Say I closed the needle too hard and caused a compression-line around it. That is a moving air molecule(s) rushing past and upsetting the aero.

3. This next hole or the one with the hose nipple is this one is attached to all the others. Why? Each cylinder is in a timed sequence, where one intake is opened at a time. You now can monitor each vacuum pulse at the IAP sensor. When the next engine cylinder takes in a gulp of air, this is monitored via the vac at that hole. So you know all those attached hoses land into the one hose off the IAP. I stall, I look here for hoses off, cut, cracked, kinked.

4. This last hole is for the sync tool. This has a little hose or a stopper plug over the nipple. Here is where you attach the vac gauge or manometer hoses onto the throttle body. 1-2-4-3 is the firing order, so if you are going to use all 4 nipples for the sync, look how close the matching pulse is, you use 2-4 to sync the throttle plates first.

Now for some options:

1-4 hookup; I can close the needles from the outside is to sync 1-4 and the pulse is so fast, we are nitpicking how a pulse is about even by the time the naked eye sees it. If this is how yo want to run the 2-step sync is one way.

2-4 hookup is the other way to sync the shafts first. Of course this is going to be more low speed screw adjusting, but this is the process via the shop manual, but I look at it another way.

1-2-3-4 hookup; Here is where the book says not to mess with the middle screw, you did not rebuild the body, take it apart, upset the blade balance. So the book says to sync the screws instead... Now, think about this...

Closed low screws - I have to raise the idle = I lost a little air.
Speed Event = The air is closed so at the blade this says; whoever rushes the door first ~ Turns Rich.

The needles being a 1/4 open across the board - I now sync the air screws to see where they are at? Ready? I don't care about balance of merc in the mano or needle at the gauge. When I turn in or out, out is LEAN; so do I turn the others out and there goes the drop/climb? Yes. That says; Remember how that one screw responds so I know if I want to run rich or lean in the smoothing = Richer means smoother. Lean means = Mean.



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Rook


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RE: how-to for throttle body sync?
07/07/15 8:31 PM

1-2-3-4 hookup; Here is where the book says not to mess with the middle screw, you did not rebuild the body, take it apart, upset the blade balance. So the book says to sync the screws instead.

Actually, the book says to adjust the center screw if any throttle valve is not within specification, Standard: 34.4 ±1.3 kPa (258 ±10 mmHg) at idle speed.

You adjust the center screw so the higher vacuum of 1-2 and the higher vacuum of 3-4 are equal.

Once you have the pairs balanced, if any of the individual throttle valves have out of spec vacuum, you adjust the bypass screws to bring it into spec.

Personally, if this is your first time doing this, I would probably not want to screw with it any more than necessary.

So, how 'bout the tach? I have been looking at highly accurate tachometers lately and they're about $300-$500. Can you use the bike's tach? Hub says the lower the rpm the better the manometer reading will be. However, if the rpm is less than the factory setting of 1100 rpm, that will certainly make the vacuum lower.

[EDIT 10/14/15: wrong. The lower the rpm is, the higher the vacuum will be. Increased rpm is caused by openning the throttle plates and open throttle plates displace vacuum with air coming into the Tbodies]

You cannot tell if any throttle valve is out of spec if the engine is not running at the exact proper rpm. Right?

[EDIT 10/14/15: right. same as before, if the rpm is too high, the throttle is open to wide, the vacuum will be lower than it would at specced idle speed of 1100 rpm. however, if all you want to do is balance the vacuums, you don't need to worry about the exact amount of vacuum you have as long as all 4 bodies are the same vacuum]

Also, if you have a manometer instead of a vacuum gauge, is the manometer marked with an mmHg scale like a vac gauge would?

{EDIT 10/14/15: No. most manometers don't come with calibration marks. You need to balance the SynPro manometer before each use so any numeric calibration marks would be inaccurate. I see one manometer pictured a few pages ahead in this thread that has calibration markings but after using the SyncPro, I'm not sure such markings could be relied on for accurate indication of vacuum. If you want to know what the vacuum is, get vacuum gauges. They should be pretty accurate when brand new. I imagine a more expensive single port digital vacuum gauge would be about as close to dead on as practical for most DIYers and that would be the thing to use to check vacuum if you need an extremely accurate reading. A single port would be mighty inconvenient to use for syncing however


* Last updated by: Rook on 1/13/2016 @ 4:45 PM *



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Rook


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RE: how-to for throttle body sync?
07/07/15 8:48 PM

There is some good infor about tachometers here and other equipment here.

$230 for a good tachometer.


[EDIT: 10/14/15: The bike's tachometer will do just fine. You only need an auxiliary tachometer if you are checking the exact amount of vacuum but for syncing, exact amount of vacuum is not important.]


Also notice he is using a 4 dial vac gauge. I think the manometer will do me fine the first shot at this but I don't think it's going to help for checking for out of spec vacuum. You'll need a gauge for that. I guess I will too..someday.

[EDIT 01/13/16: The SyncPro is a little more precise and easier to view but A LOT harder to use than a vacuum gauge. I wouldn't let go of my SyncPro since I have it but if I could have only one or the other, it would be the vacuum gauges without even giving it a second thought. Much simpler and more versatile tool than the SyncPro.


* Last updated by: Rook on 1/13/2016 @ 4:52 PM *



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marco



Location: San Jose, CA

Joined: 05/17/09

Posts: 30

RE: how-to for throttle body sync?
07/07/15 9:26 PM

Hi all,

here is my update

At the local Harbor Freight store I bought:
- Flexible shaft LED light (part# 95414) $9.99
- Telescoping mirror (part# 7361) $4.99

1) I've been able to see the screws circled in green: they are flat not Phillips, Hub would you confirm the same
for your bike?

2) Hi Rook, I don't see the screws you mentioned (with reference to the pic you posted)

3) I can see the screw circled in red now

Please note;
- when I say "I see" I mean the image in the mirror
- It seems easier to properly point the mirror from the left side of the bike (cylinder #1)

Hi Hub,

would you please confirm you performed the sync by adjusting the green screws?

Marco


P.S.
I don't know yet if I'll make it ! :o)



Yamaha 600 Diversion, Yamaha FJ1200, Yamaha YZF1000R, Yamaha FZ1, Kawasaki zx14, Kawasaki ZX14R

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Rook


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RE: how-to for throttle body sync?
07/07/15 11:36 PM

2) Hi Rook, I don't see the screws you mentioned (with reference to the pic you posted)

If you see the ones you circled green and the one you circled red, that's all there are for balancing the vacuum.



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Hub


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RE: how-to for throttle body sync?
07/08/15 12:44 AM

I hear ya Rook about the center screw. Shoulda read the book again, but I was thinking of the part about rebuild, new needles and where to start? So technically, the compression has to be ideal, you open the screws to the ideal range they are saying to run. The up and down mmHg is no lower than, no higher than, but with ideal compression, that is that center number in the book is the aim.

Less compression = Less vac pull. So you may be fighting a low compression cylinder to a better one. You didn't first check compression just to even go through the sync steps not knowing the condition of the eng.

So you can tell if moving the screw in or out [where it will drop] is remember the direction. That's the secret. Another trick is say you go by the book. Leave the hardest needle screw alone. This is now your base you run the other 3 off of it.

If you have a fuel tank canister hooked up to the sync nipples, note in the book there is no mention of closing the 2 down that are not used. So the book is a more read in between the lines in a few ways... My way is fuck the book, watch the fuck out on the test blip! WOT a fucking response!

Signed,
I'll beat your book tune you do not grasp the book's concept and now in hubbish abstract the smooth out of it.



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Rook


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RE: how-to for throttle body sync?
07/08/15 7:42 AM


Thanks for the video, Hub (love the cat at the end, BTW). EUREKA! NOw I see what that center screw does. The center screw adjusts the degree open/closed of fly plates #1 and #2 to fly plates #3 and #4 via shifting the rotation of the actuator arm between the pairs. The center screw does not adjust the airflow through any of the holes via a needle valve; it adjusts the fly valve angle. So this is how you balance the pairs, you open the flies of 1-2 a crack more or less than 3-4 so that the vacuum of 1-2 is the same as 3-4. Seems to me, turn one direction, 1-2 would reduce vacuum and 3-4 would increase. Turn the other way and the difference in vacuum between the pairs would reverse (3-4 reduces, 1-2 increases). [EDIT 10-17-15: That's the way it works. Turning the center screw clockwise closes the throttle valves to #3 and #4 increasing vacuum. Counterclockwise opens #3 and #4 decreasing vacuum. As far as I can tell, the center screw will not effect #1 and #2 no matter ho far you turn it counterclockwise. It seemed to stop turning counterclockwise and I don't believe there was any change in the vacuum of #1 and #2. Can't say for sure n that, that screw is too difficult to turn to experiment a whole lot with.] I can see why they say 'if all vacuums are within spec, don't screw with that center screw!' Knowing this, I would suggest that the center screw be left alone if you are using a manometer. If you are using a vacuum gauge from which you can read the exact vacuum value of all Tbody valves, you know if one value is a little low. In that case, you could equalize the pairs via fly plate angle. [EDIT 10-17-15: Actually, no. The center screw is the first one you should go to according to the service manual. If balancing the highest vacuums of the pairs via the center screw leaves any vacuum lower than spec, you should close the bypass screw for each of those Tbodies so that all vacuums are in spec. True, if you are using a manometer, you do not know what the exact vacuum is but there I no reason to avoid the center screw. It seems to have a much greater effect con the vacuum than the bypass screws so you probably will need to adjust the center screw. I think a vacuum gauge is a better tool for adjusting vacuums because depending on the accuracy of the gauge, you have some idea of what the actual vacuum level is. Manometers cannot tell you the exact vacuum level.]

Now my brain is spinning about new needles and max open needle valves ....I better stop right here before I drift off into esoteric theories based on no experience.

marco, I would suggest you use only the screws you circled in green to sync the Tbodies if you are using a simple manometer. If you have vacuum gauges and you see one Tbody has less than 248 mmHg, then maybe you want to change that fly angle between the pairs with the center screw (you circled in red) to change the actuator arm angles.
[EDIT 10-17-15: As before, go ahead and turn the center screw first. It's not going to hurt anything. If you look at it closely, you can always turn it back to where it was but where it was does not matter if your Tbodies are out of sync. You really can't overdo this so use the center screw as needed.]

What say you to that, Hub?


* Last updated by: Rook on 1/14/2016 @ 6:37 PM *



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Hub


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RE: how-to for throttle body sync?
07/08/15 8:33 AM

marco, I would suggest you use only the screws you circled in green to sync the Tbodies if you are using a simple manometer. If you have vacuum gauges and you see one Tbody has less than 248 mmHg, then maybe you want to change that fly angle between the pairs with the center screw (you circled in red) to change the actuator arm angles.

What say you to that, Hub?

I say that all I can do is show theory/abstract = Use is on your own! The book is one way of tuning. My way is to see the concepts of the shafts and holes. I see 3 moves are how I tune in camperformance.

1. Compression = I will not compensate moving more plate opening to band-aid fix; a poor cylinder with lower compression. I first repair this.

2. I have spring/screw compression, because if I look at the bell crank, the springs in between the screw; my one shaft moves first. Then the compression of the springs occurs Then the constant movement is a wear factor. Then, precision lost is the one throttle plate shaft. I'm after that same, where am I in the compression and that wear factor?

3. The air on the closed side of the plate is like a faucet; you open the screw and let more air bypass. See the pull of air under the plate? See the same out of that hole? = Another kind of pressure to be addressed. I want smooth out of the corners. I want a smooth crank pulse. I want clear mirrors, I want I want smooooth air flow. I can see via a lift of liquid and all I have to do is screw things in or out. All I need to do is ignore numbers and and make the levels even. My aim is to smooth out these 2 air flow systems. It's all about everything listed and more. Oh, yeah, numb hands at the bars is no vibration traveling up your rear end, feet, hands... Make sense there are 2 air flows? Plate to plate, needle to needle?

Sometimes you have to look in between the lines of that manual to think outside the box. You have to know concepts before you can open the book. I understand the numbers as it formulates with book compression to book screw numbers and how you turn out the screw to this number. But they say to write down each turn and return it back to this position?

Well, if I know less air out of that hole turns rich, I can clean up my pc map tune via lean/rich screwing around with this faucet under the fly flow of air. So you went from book to extreme balancing out vibration to even tuning more AFR in or out for low speed driveability.

We there yet?



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marco



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RE: how-to for throttle body sync?
07/08/15 7:24 PM

Hi all,

my daily update

Since I decided to replace engine oil & oil filter (since the fairing has been removed) I went to the local Kawasaki service shop (Santa Clara, CA) to buy the filter and speak with Kevin who is the mechanic who repaired my bike a couple of times

I showed Kevin Hub's picture (the one with the green, red circles) asking how to
do the sync tune, here is his answer

1) The screws circled in green are used to balance the two pairs (1, 2 & 3,4), the adjustment has to be performed
to the highest vacuum level measured between the two bodies
Sometime it may happen that a screw is already completely turned in so the adjustment must be performed
using both screws

2) The screw circled in red has to be used to balance the two pairs

3) This vacuum sync may not be very useful if is not performed right after the valves adjustment


I hope this info can be useful, however:

I had the valves checked at ~21K miles, now the clock shows ~35K miles, do I really want to do this vacuum sync?


Marco



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Rook


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RE: how-to for throttle body sync?
07/08/15 9:04 PM

Thank you for passing along the info, marco. Thanks to Kevin as well.

The term pair is a bit confusing. When speaking of balancing pairs, I was talking about balancing the left pair (1-2) with the right pair (3-4). I believe you are also using the term "balancing pairs" in the same way.

SO:

1) The screws circled in green are used to balance the two pairs (1, 2 & 3,4), the adjustment has to be performed to the highest vacuum level measured between the two bodies.
Sometime it may happen that a screw is already completely turned in so the adjustment must be performed
using both screws

You mean the screws circled in green are to balance the individual bodies, not to balance one pair to the other, right?

1) You increase the flow of either #1 or #2 so both of those individual bodies they have the same vacuum. You may need to adjust both #1 and #2 if one screw gets turned all the way (I'd also think about getting a new needle in there soon). Then, balance #3 to #4 in the same manner.

2) The screw circled in red has to be used to balance the two pairs

2) The center screw which you circled in red is then used to balance the left pair (1-2) to the right pair (3-4). I presume one pair will reduce in vacuum and the other will increase.

IMHO, I still probably will not touch that center screw. I'll try to balance all four bodies individually to the highest of the four body's vacuum. If I tighten a screw all the way, I guess I will have to hit the center screw. I'll be planning to remove the Tbodies and replace needles the next time if that is the case. [EIT 01/2016: You will probably not be able to adjust without using the center screw. The bypass screws don't change the vacuum nearly as much as the center screw dose.]

3) This vacuum sync may not be very useful if is not performed right after the valves adjustment

3) Do the sync right after a valve adjustment.

Too late. That was 12,000 miles ago for me. I just couldn't get myself to do it until now. Doing the sync now should have the same effect as right after the valve clearance adjustment. The valve clearances did not change at all from when I adjusted them 12,000 miles ago.

So, does that look right, marco? ...my paraphrasing of what you said your mech told you?

Are you still going ahead with the Tbodies sync even though you did not just have a valve clearance adjustment?


* Last updated by: Rook on 1/14/2016 @ 6:44 PM *



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Hub


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RE: how-to for throttle body sync?
07/09/15 6:46 AM

marco,
1... is giving you book balance. So he is right. Call the ball. Book or Smoothing? Remember, that throttle body has no actuator, no subs, no way my way does not work like look at all the research to tuning. You need to hook up 1&4, wonder if your plate is off or your needles are? Lots of concepts turn into this abstract of air flow, AFR, balance my air like E.

2. He's giving you book procedure so he's right again. It says; do not touch the shaft screw unless, you first clean the air system with new screw sets, clean the channels, and that didn't sync in? Now turn the shaft screw.

3. He's correct is a full service. But missed opening the KOM if he's all about book.

I had the valves checked at ~21K miles, now the clock shows ~35K miles, do I really want to do this vacuum sync?

The mech got KOM'd. He was not looking in the owner's manual to see first sync is in between valve adjustments too. So with a shim inspect there is also a sync inspect and that interval. In between intervals too, remember.

Again, screw goes in is rich. 1 screw calls the ball of all the other 3. So if I am rich, I am out 1/4 turn [pick your cylinder] and I blend the needles in or out if all are 1/4 out to begins with?

Again, I need to see 2 flow systems as if I'm going to first count the turns of each screw and write them into my OM. Now I can move all my needles out that were closed, because I know who was which. So if I screw up, I can go back to that setting.

Again, never tighten the screw home or you damage the body. Needles are replaceable, body is N/A but as a complete unit only.



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Rook


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RE: how-to for throttle body sync?
07/09/15 8:47 AM

He's giving you book procedure so he's right again. It says; do not touch the shaft screw unless, you first clean the air system with new screw sets, clean the channels, and that didn't sync in? Now turn the shaft screw.

Yeah, that center screw scares me. Why go and upset the balance of the flies unless there is a real problem with engine performance? My throttle feels just fine without ever having synced the Tbodies. I'd like to adjust the flow from outside to balance all 4 vacuums but I do not want to mess with the internal flow of the butterfly valves. Think about this, if you adjust the center screw, you are turning one of the butterfly pairs closed. That pair will never quite give you WOT unless you get new needles in there and readjust the pairs. Adjust the bypass screws (circled in green), you're only compensating for the flow of the needles. Throttle %/position is not effected. That's how it seems to me.

I might mess with the center screw after I am thoroughly familiar with how it works and I am sure I know how to set it back to 0. Not on the first go 'round.

[EDIT 10-17-15: don't be afraid of the center screw. It just barely tilts the throttle plates. No big deal. The factory must have set it at some point so why not you? There's no telling if your throttle plates were ever zero degrees level with each other so adjust them as needed. As I see it now, if the bike is running properly, that's how the plates should be set.]


* Last updated by: Rook on 10/17/2015 @ 9:14 AM *



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Hub


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I want to Tone like an Ohm
07/09/15 10:14 AM

Ha, not as much as 'Spooky Coolant.' You guys have fun with that chem reacting mess. Talk about the old days. I wish I could find that video. I was so anal about throttle sync, I saw myself walk the bike out of the tunnel of a long gone race track: I didn't want to upset or put the hours on the sync. Knowing that brand would be out of sync within hundreds of miles, let alone hammering race miles; that was my MO. A warmup lap got the bike hot so less hours again on the engine.

Next thing you find out is with this brand and any multi cyl engine is; "I pull my clutch in and the noise goes away." Oh, lookeystroke there!; a sync back to one [1-4] set of points is to match the other [2-3] set. You want them to bounce open together when it's timed to fire. This is part of old school smoothing of the points set. Use a meter to sync their gap opening. So it was better preformed electrically, not with a set of feeler gauges. This is hand feel vs. E? No brainer there is it Electrically Even.

Next is to run the valves all nice and loose for a quiet top end. Or, nice and tight and be within spec on the tight side wink-wink; opens the event sooner for top mph work. Loose for low speed grunt work. Now that I have that out of the way in no certain order, meaning, the points set, the valves set, next is the clutch bang.

Do we see even banks? Bike fires 1-2-4-3 and that says I share 2 and 4 is the next pulse? So I share a bang on left bang is the shaft-2, and right bank shaft 4 and that odd or even balance. I want even fire is no bang induced if out of sync. Looks like a set of points to me. That narrows it down to who needs an equal opening at the 'Spooky Screw?' LOL

Here we see the 3-moves to smoothing out the clutch bang, the mirrors, the crank, shall I go on? Tune up and smoothing mean the same thing. They are [ign/comp/sync]; is all she wrote tune wise. That was back in the day. Fast forward, no ign needs adjusting. Shims still do, and think clutch bang is the t-body sync system to clear that issue. WOT&WATT did I cover? Balance is what I have to clear up, or a resync is the given... Whaaaaaat a smoothie after all is said and done. "I wanna tone like an ohm," cough, electrically/magnetically speaking of being balanced +Wink-Wink.

Again, we have to dissect how that dual air system works. I already had sub-theory is the speed event lagger dragger blades. I already knew about clutch bang and it was not going to happen to this puppy. I already knew how that scary screw is not a one piece shaft so maintenance it is. That right there is clutch bang. Eliminate that 2-piece to a 1-piece shaft and quiet is bullet. Easy on the rods swing-stop-action. Easy on the pulse is none between points is now a precision opening. Shim clearance within a constant number. Easy on the eyes is to watch the valve sink into the head and the comp changes to bang.

So air pulse bang are the little guys. Since my shaft is argumentatively a 1-piece, I can raise/lower my pulse to compensate for a comp change and a fuel change will kill 2-birds. The precision is so, "I just moved it ever so slight" in precision... What are you scared of? I'm up to it and now hardly move it; it's so precision is the pulse.

I am in this scenario of practice. I am tooled up, mirror in place, hand holding the sync tool on the screw... I dried practice [not moving it] but planting the X into the slot = "Call me a pro." I first need to practice a, 'dental my pick' and watch the angles as you plant the phillips into the slot. Walk away from the bike. Go back to it in a day or two. Make a dental-dry-run again.

Now, you have [confidence] time for this. Why? Because, by the time you turn the key on with one hand, your other hand has that tool floating on that center screw, you hit the starter, look in the mirror, plant the hex, look up at the meter and do you need to make an adjustment? You'll have enough time to relax and perform the dental move with the mirror and all that. Why?

That bike gets hot quick, so you work first with a cold engine. I try to hand move those low speed screws with the meguyveer setup when cold, but guess what? By the time it's up to getting that head hot enough to settle out the pulses, you are making finer adjustments as you practice with a colder engine. Rather than work in that book-heat building time already up? No. You'll now need fans to cool the bike off. Colder is now another dry run in real time.

Walk away from the bike and let it cool down. Keep the gauges hooked up... 'practice makes perfect.'



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Rook


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RE: how-to for throttle body sync?
07/09/15 9:32 PM

The precision is so, "I just moved it ever so slight" in precision... What are you scared of? I'm up to it and now hardly move it; it's so precision is the pulse.

Walk away from the bike and let it cool down. Keep the gauges hooked up... 'practice makes perfect.'

That's true. I have sensitive fingers as they come and you don't get anywhere without trying stuff. However, when it comes to practice, going in a little deeper each time until you find the edge is the key...if you're looking to find the edge.



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marco



Location: San Jose, CA

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RE: how-to for throttle body sync?
07/09/15 11:13 PM

Hi all,

tonight I just replaced oil & filter :o)

I want to practice with mirror and angled screw driver, if I'll be confident I'll do the Tbodies sync

Marco



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Hub


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RE: how-to for throttle body sync?
07/09/15 11:59 PM

You can practice for months and ride for months. Most do not even set their sync and they run just fine. But this is more practice time. Like the time I read a book on casting. There were too many 'be confident' passages that were unneeded, I don't know?

A co-worker and I hit the beach one night. He starts running to the surf and casts out, grunt and all as he lobs. Walks those few feet back and I see the line in the spool. He hands it to me, I stand at the same spot, cast out with the wrist technique the long casters use, emptied his spool practically, and way past his lob. That's a lot of sneak up to that screw practice, if you know what I mean?



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marco



Location: San Jose, CA

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RE: how-to for throttle body sync?
07/11/15 10:08 PM

Hi all,

I gave up!

I tried almost three hours to reach the center screw by looking at the mirrored image, I'll never make it

Also there is not much room for both mirror and angled screw driver

I may try again in a while however I want to thank you both (Hub, Rook) for your tips and suggestions

By the way: is there a way to setup an email notification flagging new posts on this thread?

Ciao,
Marco



Yamaha 600 Diversion, Yamaha FJ1200, Yamaha YZF1000R, Yamaha FZ1, Kawasaki zx14, Kawasaki ZX14R

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Rook


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RE: how-to for throttle body sync?
07/12/15 12:01 AM

I know how mysterious this seems if you have not removed the Tbodies and seen firsthand where the screws are. I'd suggest permanently removing the PAIR from your Gen1...don't know if you can do that on a Gen2. That will open up a little space under there. Unless you have hands like catchers mits, you ought to be able to feel that center screw. It's right at the center of #2 and #3. ...but I wouldn't mess with the center screw yet anyway. Did you get the individuals balanced? I'll bet you could balance all with just those 4 bypass screws. Let the center screw go until another time.



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Rook


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RE: how-to for throttle body sync?
07/12/15 12:01 AM

Thanks for the questions. I learned some good stuff here too.



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Rook


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RE: how-to for throttle body sync?
09/16/15 4:05 PM

Damned screws!!!!!

I set up everything to sync tune my 2008 baby but ..... can't see the three @$%^#&@* pilot screw adjusters !!!!

Even using the pics from the service manual I can't locate them; does anyone know if there are some pics in our
forum showing them? I searched but found nothing yet

Any suggestion about how to locate them will be very welcome !

Hi all,

I gave up!

I tried almost three hours to reach the center screw by looking at the mirrored image, I'll never make it

Also there is not much room for both mirror and angled screw driver

Hub, I can see why he gave up. having a good look at the T-bodies, the adjuster screws are at the bottom just above the intakes. The main adjuster for the pairs is jammed below the level of the head cover. The bypass screws are located at the g-dam back of the T-bodies! It is impossible to adjust #4 because a bracket on the fuel rail is right in front of it. You'd have to remove the fuel rail to adjust it. WTF?
I can't see syncing unless you remove T-bodies and sync on a flow bench of some sort. [EDIT 10-17-15: It is possible. The bracket needs to be bent a little bit and there are a couple other parts that need to be freed up so you have room but it can be done. Read on.]


* Last updated by: Rook on 10/17/2015 @ 9:18 AM *



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Rook


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RE: how-to for throttle body sync?
09/16/15 8:17 PM

Come to think of it, syncing on a flow bench would not be of much use. We're adjusting for engine vacuum, not flow bench vacuum.

OK. I found all the screws with a mirror and penlight. I'll have a shot at this.

I don't see a problem with tuning the bypass screws alone. Your not going to want to reduce vacuum to any bore so why not just increase the weaker ones to match the strongest? [EDIT 10-17-15: If the sync is off enough, the Gen1 bypass screws probably will not have enough latitude to adjust without the help of the center screw.]
The only reason I can imagine to turn the center screw that balances the pairs is so that the bypass screws do not need to be turned as much. [EDIT 10-17-15: exactly.]
Is there any chance a bypass screw could be opened too much...like could it vibrate out if you loosen it too much?
[EDIT 10-17-15: It sure could vibrate out if opened too much. I would suggest leaving it closed enough that you see at least a couple threads in the hole. All the more reason to use the center screw to help sync.]


* Last updated by: Rook on 10/17/2015 @ 9:24 AM *



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Hub


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RE: how-to for throttle body sync?
09/16/15 10:58 PM

2-Steps to sync smoothing:
Note... For racing only. The vapor recover system is not used.
1. Close all bypass screws... do not bottom out, know when the end is near, but don't lock it down.
2. Sync the center screw... by using 1-4 cylinders only, or 2-3 only.
3. Install the other 2 cylinder sync tubes... open the bypass 1/4 turn out (rich) or 1/2 turn out (lean), then sync the 4 bypass screws to each other. Note that turning the screw in is rich, out lean so when syncing all 4, know which direction you can move to sync.
5. Do not touch the center screw to sync any bypass screws.

You're right. Vac is real world action. The more that spring unloads, the more chance it walks out... 1/4 turn out = richer than 1/2, a tighter spring than 1/2 out, a richer setting than.



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Rook


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RE: how-to for throttle body sync?
09/17/15 11:56 AM

Thanks, Hub. I gotcha. I see where you're going with that. Your returning to the zero mark to create a custom T-body tune from scratch. I like that but for this first crack at it, I'll prolly follow the book's approach which seems aimed at changing the factory setting as little as possible. Net year, I'll be doing this again with a good tach and vacuum gauges so prolly try your method at that time when I will actually be able to read what the vacuum is. You know, the manometers aren't calibrated with numbers so you really don't know where your at with your vacuum spec.

Two more questions:
1. I know the bikes tach has an analogue display making it hard to read precisely and it might not even be accurate anyway. Is it okay to use the bikes tach?
[EDIT 10-17-15: The bike's tach is just fine. The only reason you need the idle exactly at 1100 rpm is to show the exact vacuum and you will not be able to see that with a manometer anyway. If the idle is a hundred rpm more or less, it will not matter for syncing but if the idle is a little slow, the vacuum is increased which makes the fluid rise higher so they can be read more perfectly for syncing. I don't think a hundred rpm would even make a great deal of difference in reading the exact vacuum with a vacuum gauge.]

2. Is Engine vacuum sync for idle and small throttle openings? Seems to me if the throttle is open 30% or more, all the air is coming in through a rather large opening. When the throttle is open pretty wide, what difference would one degree of throttle plate tilt on the #1/2 or #3/4 side matter or a wee bit more or less flow through a bypass port? ...not that I don't want a smooth idle or fine control of very small throttle openings that sometimes are used cornering at high rpm...but other than that and at idle, is a good sync really going to make a big dif? [EDIT 10-17-15: it is mostly for smooth idle and perfect fine throttle control. I don't think it's going to make a lick of difference when you're hard on the gas.]


DAMN that #2 test fitting is a bugger! Got it. IDK how you big handed guys can do this crap.


* Last updated by: Rook on 10/17/2015 @ 9:33 AM *



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Rook


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RE: how-to for throttle body sync?
09/17/15 3:14 PM

...another question
#3 If you have a look at this video, the guy explains how to calibrate the restriction of the manometer so that the fluid will not get sucked up into the engine. Scroll to 6:12-7:20. The guy is talking about using the master T-body or master carb beause it is non-adjustable and should give you the actual, non-adjusted (presumably highest)vacuum to calibrate the manometer restriction to.

We don't have a master T-body on the 14. They're all adjustable. Which T-body should I use to calibrate the mano?
[EDIT 10-17-15: Use any Tbody to calibrate. The 14 has no master Tbody. Use the strongest vacuum Tbody if yu know which one that is but it really does not matter a whole lot. I guess it would be best to avoid calibrating off of the weakest Tbody but I did that once and it still worked fine. It's very unlikely that you will suck fluid up into the motor as long as you first turn the calibration screws all the way counterclockwise as instructions say to do.


* Last updated by: Rook on 10/17/2015 @ 9:41 AM *



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Rook


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RE: how-to for throttle body sync?
09/18/15 9:50 PM

Yo--Hub?



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