Do the start line finish line test and film with onboard camera.

But when you're on the street and it's no quicker, and in fact a little slower, why spend the money

It's got to be awfully hard to tell what an extra 3-4 hp feels like when the bike is already making 190 hp. FCOL, I don't ride hard often enough to feel the dif in hp between the stock system and a race exhaust an that should be 12-15 hp. The bike is lighter, revs quicker and feels different but I don't know if it's faster. ..so if a flash doesn't make the bike feel different and it doesn't go faster even by a fraction of a second.....yes, why?

From the tiny bit of experience I have with tuning, I don't notice a big change there either. The bike was smoother but it was already smooth except in the flies open spot. As far as speed, I could not feel any difference at all. NONE. COuld not detect any improvement in speed after pulling flies. no dif after switching from stock mapping to DJ map. Slight dif in smoothness switching from DJ to map for my exact set up. AutoTune adjustment, finally got the very smooth low end throttle. I couldn't tell you if any of those maps made the bike faster.

My point: hp and speed is probably about the hardest thing for the average rider to feel after tuning but its what everyone is looking at when they tune.

This thread hurts the ole Noodle. Do you guys really believe a flashed bike is slower ? Say it isn't so.

I'll wait to see the video of a rollon 1st-4th gear comparo. If that shows a flashed bike to be slower, I personally will donate the first $10 to the "Pass around the stock ECU Project." We need to see more filmed before/afters.

How would you explain it Romans? I still suspect the flashed bike is faster by about 1 mph and is traveling about 10 feet farther in a 4th gear test from 4000-reedline. hitting peak rpm quicker doesn't always mean hitting a higher speed.

* Last updated by: Rook on 6/30/2015 @ 8:53 AM *

"This thread hurts the ole Noodle. Do you guys really believe a flashed bike is slower ? Say it isn't so."

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

The so called safety mode would have to be non-existent for a properly flashed bike not to be faster,

its power delivery, power band, etc .. etc .. we already know that there are significant gains with a flash
at certain areas of the powerband, thus more HP, Torque etc ...

Romans:

Do you guys really believe a flashed bike is slower ? Say it isn't so.

Carabuser:

we already know that there are significant gains with a flash at certain areas of the powerband, thus more HP, Torque etc

Can y'all demonstrate the real world difference in the same manner as Vic?

So far I can't find fault with his comparison method.

* Last updated by: extrapolator on 6/30/2015 @ 9:06 AM *

I suspect TC is the culprit, too...but if you can't maintain traction with a flash, how does that make the bike faster?

how does that make the bike faster?

On the AFR scale:
+13a- ~ Best torque?
More Fuel ~ 'Smooth' kicks in.

And the result? "Flash makes my bike smoother" Oh really? "And gobs of torque down the bottom" No shit?

With a bike this fast already it's very hard to see gains .. Remember back in 2012 I went 8.52 with just a pipe and cheap bolt on extensions ..It took a tune , flash and BST wheels ,clutch mod to go 8.42 .. 8.49 with a tune and no flash ..8.47 and 8.46 with the flash added... Add BST wheels 8.43 and 8.42 ..As you can see the gains from each mod were very small .. But all the mods together added up to a full tenth of a second and 3 to 4 MPHs ..
Best part of the flash is not tons of extra HP . They are being able to set the T/C to default to your last settings ,Raise your RPM limit for extra MPH ,Removing the safety mode ( that is a biggie ) and removing the top speed limiter, opening the flies faster ..Still on top of that is the free mod ( removing your flies )

It's a package guys , not just one mod , but many mods ..Would I have gone 8.42 without the flash , maybe and maybe not ..I myself believe the flash helped and the way it helped the most was the shift point being moved up to 11200 and keeping me from having an extra shift on the 1/4 mile ..Would that be helpful on the street ? could be ..Might just put you a bike ahead of your buddies bike .. Either way you look a it the flash is just one part of a package..

* Last updated by: Smokinzx14 on 6/30/2015 @ 5:40 PM *

Best part of the flash is not tons of extra HP . They are being able to set the T/C to default to your last settings ,Raise your RPM limit for extra MPH ,Removing the safety mode ( that is a biggie ) and removing the top speed limiter, opening the flies faster ..Still on top of that is the free mod ( removing your flies )

If that's the case then Woolich is the best option. :)

It took a tune , flash and BST wheels ,clutch mod to go 8.42

Lee... you forgot to mention the swingarm extensions.

What's a Cblash AFR? If he's showing that 212 or 202 hp#, is not the AFR on the 13---.5 line?
What does Don have for AFR? No map change or are we what in AFR? Disables/rpm and 100% open fly is not going to run 13a and change, correct?

Now here is: AFR to AFR's and where is Don and where are Nel's numbers? Because I'm not certain Cblast was sitting on the bike in 4th gear, is holding the grn/red button [sampling box for a better term] eng @ 2000rpm, nor is at the keyboard changing cell numbers, yada-ya-hey, watt gives? And I'm talking the very first fueling flash is my assumption; it runs to 13a and change.

hagrid go back and read my post ... First line ..

"Remember back in 2012 I went 8.52 with just a pipe and cheap bolt on extensions"

It's been tough for me to post about this because I don't want to trash CBlast or his flash products. I'm literally on my 6th revision of this post (over the last couple days) because I don't really know what to say other than the results are what the results are. I'm not here to tell people not to buy his flash products. I was actually hoping to do the opposite. After all, I bought his flash product and nothing would've made me happier than backing my decision with the numbers.

Subjectively my assessment is this. Back to back, it's virtually impossible for me to tell which ECU is in the bike. Both have power wheelied at unexpected times and given me "oh wow" moments. As far as fuel mileage, sound being different, and revving like a liter bike I cannot relate to those claims at all. If you read C's post here about what his flash does, it talks about making the maximum torque possible and >95% torque from 4500 rpm. Well, this is exactly what my test was about. The numbers just didn't work out. I'm not going to suppress the results because they don't support CBlast. That's just not right, and it's not why I did the testing.

I did the testing purely out of interest and to actually support the product. Like most of you, I thought for certain there would be some increase in rate of acceleration, I was expecting somewhere around 3-5%. Basically I was thinking it would be around ~10 seconds with the stock ECU and >9.5 <10. I think even a .1 second gain would be conclusive and worth it...that's a bike's length and that's all it takes to win.

It's just not the case.

As others have stated - thanks for your efforts and for sharing the results!

You sound impartial and very sincere, Vic. i still think you should try at least one or two runs shifting through a few gears. Shift speed will be a factor but if the flash was a couple tenths second slower in one gear and it comes up 4 or 5 tenths slower shifting from 1,2,3,4 I would say that's all that's needed to conclude that stock is faster. I have brought up the fact a hundred times and I know you know this but for anyone reading who might not have considered, a flash is NOT a custom tune. It's a map made off a bike the tuner used at his shop. With a flash being good for only 6-8 hp on the bike that was tuned to create the map, it seems possible that it might end up being slower in someone else's bike. You might have an engine that happened to come out of the factory about as perfect as can be. The stock tuning might be spot on. It would be interesting to get the bike on a dyno and see what adjustments a tuner would suggest. If you're still interested, maybe get a PC and Autotune on there and see how that plays out. I think if I were you, I'd be happy to ride the FREAK of nature as she came and set the flashed ECU on the shelf.

I'd really like to see a dyno sheet between the two but I understand that's unlikely. Regardless of these particular results, I am convinced my bike performs better with the flash. My friend who hopped off a stocker and then on to mine could not believe the difference as well.

+1 on the comparative dyno sheets, nothing like more data to enhance the discussion

Shift speed will be a factor but if the flash was a couple tenths second slower in one gear and it comes up 4 or 5 tenths slower shifting from 1,2,3,4 I would say that's all that's needed to conclude that stock is faster.

CBlast's advertisement on this forum claims.

No more air or fuel or ignition or any combo of the three would achieve a greater overall result.
95% of maximum torque is available from 4500rpm to redline.

This is exactly what my test evaluated. As far as cookie cutter vs. custom tune, I don't believe a true dyno custom tune would perform any different. A custom tune could potentially be a lot worse that depends on so many things such as the operator's knowledge 14s and experience.

I don't have any answers as to why the numbers worked out they way they did.

I'd really like to see a dyno sheet between the two but I understand that's unlikely. Regardless of these particular results, I am convinced my bike performs better with the flash. My friend who hopped off a stocker and then on to mine could not believe the difference as well.

+1 on the comparative dyno sheets, nothing like more data to enhance the discussion

Here's the thing. It becomes a never ending laundry list of "I'd like to sees". So let's say I do a dyno thing, and run through the gears, and it still doesn't support what you think it should. You'll just ask for some other different thing. My suggestion is prove to yourself and then share it with us.

Again, I don't have the answers why my bike doesn't perform any faster with the Cblasted ECU in. The numbers are what they are. The numbers are not a lie. I do know CBlast told me the the flash went perfectly (or whatever), so unless somethings screwed up there the numbers are what the numbers are.

Keep in mind most of you that buy flash products cannot perform back to back testing like I can. So you order a flash (again from anyone, not just CBlast) and are all excited about it. You're bikes been down a week, you're excited about your new flash/map, and that you haven't ridden in a week leaves you forgetting just how little different things are.

Buy a stock ECU or throw in a stock map (if you have a PCV). Do the same testing I did. Don't be surprised when you don't see any difference either. That's the only way you're going to believe anything. One things for sure, you cannot rely on "feels" for performance.

One things for sure, you cannot rely on "feels" for performance.

Where women are concerned, it's my only metric.

The sound of crikets from the tuners except Romans is deafening. If the fanboys wax poetic, they are quick to accept kudos, but if a perceived problem arises, dead silence??

Vic,

Here's the thing. It becomes a never ending laundry list of "I'd like to sees you get on the fucking bike, bring your assfactor out to the garage, same old shit and [no doubt] is your riding ability, did I day one say get on the FFS-illy, plug it the fuck in and hammer the throttle at that RPM remember that day?"

So let's say your support is backed up, cameras running, FFS, what the foo-foo-you think has the better torque the ahhhhhhhh fuckit.

You'll just say the tires are on backodor and something does not snell write in your helmet... is another post get the, do I have to fly out and squirt 3 seconds of the??!

And now ask for some other different thing is I have a bag of hot air excuses my tires; I'm tired is more like it.

My suggestion is prove to yourself your ass can't handle da truuf. Share it shit.

people who drag race keep pretty close track of their time and mods. You'd think someone would have come forward with a similar story by now if flashing was slowing them down. Maybe you got a bad flash? IDK but I'm hanging on to my modules for now.

Hub it's only worth it to me to the point I'm interested in doing it. I don't care enough to try to prove it to the nth degree to satisfy every last naysayer because turtle will never get it anyway. 99% of people here can only judge by their "feels" as far as performance differences which I have consistently give less than a diaper full of baby shit about. 99% of people here do not have ECUs they can switch back and forth to test. Subjectively, I can't tell any difference between the flashed bike and stock ECU. Not one.

people who drag race keep pretty close track of their time and mods. You'd think someone would have come forward with a similar story by now if flashing was slowing them down. Maybe you got a bad flash? IDK but I'm hanging on to my modules for now.

Drag racers? That's an open ended term. How about this scenario? Wheel and Bishop both buy brand new 14Rs. They break them in and head up to the Friday night drag strip. Both run 10.4s. Neither are too happy with this, they've read in magazines and seen elsewhere stock 14R can do it in low 9s, even 8.

Wheel sends his ECU out to get flashed by Melvin. Bishop does the same but buys a 2nd ECU, identical to his OE one, sends it out and get's it flashed by XBomb. A week later, both get their ECUs back put them new flashed ECUs in and "wow they can feel it pull harder".

A couple weeks later drag night comes again, Wheel's dressed to the nines, got his meat muppet and everything. Bishop ready to rock too, been getting advice from Wheel's telepathic pooch. Wheel's first run, he runs 9.9! OMG THAT FUCKING FLASH IS AMAZING! HOLY SHIT, THE FLASH KNOCKED 4/1OTHS OFF HOLY SHIT IT'S A LIFESAVER! Bishops turn, HE RUNS A 9.9! OMG THAT FUCKING FLASH IS AMAZING! HOLY SHIT, THE FLASH KNOCKED 4/1OTHS OFF HOLY SHIT IT'S A LIFESAVER! Both run a few more times in the .9s. AMAZING THOUGH THOSE FLASHES ARE AWESOME!

Now Bishop decides to try his stock ECU. And he runs it for a while (on the street) again and the next drag night comes around. Wheel's up first again, he runs a 9.7! OMG THAT FLASH GOT BETTER...HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE IT MUST LIKE ADAPT TO THE BIKE OR SOMETHING OR MAYBE THE RIDING STYLE? With stock ECU installed, Bishop runs a ... 9.....7? Wait a second, maybe Bishop has the wrong ECU installed? Bishop turns the bike off and on, nope TC reset to 1. That's the stock ECU.

You mean these types of drag racers?

* Last updated by: VicThing on 7/3/2015 @ 7:05 AM *

Shit that was funny.

I don't care enough to try to prove it to the nth degree to satisfy every last naysayer because turtle will never get it anyway.

Subjectively, I can't tell any difference between the flashed bike and stock ECU. Not one.

Lucky you had the vid to prove diff. I'm all 'ears' to your rebutt'il the cows come home. I can't rely on your assfactor, buttea, so why bother.