You stood more to gain...

True dat.

It has absolutely zero to do with me feeling it wouldn't perform. Look at Maverick's results. Look at Cap's results. Look at my results. Talk to anyone that has ridden it. It's about principle. I have zero idea where or who it came from. I don't know who has done what to it. And the way it was brought to my attention that this 'test' was even possible was in the form of a threat to 'tread lightly', or have a flash represented as mine posted up. I don't respond well to threats.

Lemme try paint it a different way so it's understandable. I also have had all of the major flashes come through my hands as has Nels. At any time we could have stored all the competitors flashes. We could have strapped Priscilla to the dyno, taken pics, and tested all that ourselves. Why didn't we? I would have stood to gain from it. But the thought to do that never entered our heads. Why? Because we didn't obtain them for that testing. Customers sent us their ecu's with existing flashed they wanted flashed over with the Cblast flash. So that is exactly what we did. Looked. Saw. Flashed over. Did our jobs with integrity. We developed our flash. We proved it on the dyno. We proved it in the real world. We proved it with Mav, with Cap, with Sic, with CarA, with Wolf, with Grn14. We have proved it time and again with customers whom opinion means JUST AS MUCH TO ME as anyone else's. Period.

* Last updated by: Cblast on 9/7/2014 @ 10:28 PM *

Hub that is my point and if the flash gets me a 8.39 his phone will ring off the hook .. So will mine for that matter .. Hell I'll yell it from the roof tops if it's faster ..If it does go faster but just runs the same it's still a win for his flash , guys can then skip the P/C and get the same power , plug and play .. If it slower and there is always that chance so be it . Most of you guys have known we all the way back to 2006 with my first zx14 .. I have tested 100s of things for different people .. Some work some don't and I always tell you the truth good or bad ..I get 3 to 4 calls a day 7 days a week asking me what to use . It's free info , I make nothing but I'm happy to do it if it help someone go faster or not waste money on something that doesn't work.. If I send someone to Guhl for a flash and I do that to or 3 times a week I make nothing ..But I know they will be happy and the bike will work as I told them it would.. If all they want is a part flash I send them to Schnitz for his 75.00 dollar flash ..If they want to do it them self's I send the to woolich racing.. If I got 5 bucks for every phone call I have got going back to 2006 I'd have millons ..Well maybe not millons but I have more than I have now :)

Good points, however, where is the threat? I'm going to unplug an ECU and here are the results. This is a threat? That says 211 vs 207, no? So, has Smoke ran Don's flash alone? I'm giving 4mph to She/ane's pc and 47mm's.

If we ran Don vs. C, I'd let Smoke run those two out at least all naked. I have no clue if Don's flash is heads up with yours, C. Or have we seen this on the track. Forget dyno pulls. Real world number in a 1000 feet.

We proved it with Mav, with Cap, with Sic, with CarA.

Wait a minute, you looked at the maps and said they wouldn't work? Never confirmed, just looked at the what? You threw up Don't map and it reads in decimals, not octal like your Wooly. So how could you look at Don's map in deci would not outperform the octal number?

Because you wiped the maps and installed your own? It's like tasting your mom's cooking, her best meal, and Julia Child comes along with a french dish and you toss it in the garbage. So, how could you compare? Not the way I'd look at those maps that came in.

So, were most stock with just the toggles set to it? Make all the maps run as one F-off? I'd toss those too. But not if one was Don's say. I'm going by Smoke's times.

Ok cblast lets look at Mav numbers and I have over and over .. Look at his time tickets date stamps , I did .. I went back and checked to records for the DA for his track those days and times .. I have posted this before here so it should not surprise you unless you didn't read it .. The DA between those dates and times was only 121 feet different ..121 feet will only change ET and MPH by the smallest number if at all ..1000 feet yes big difference , 121 feet zero .. He ran slower with your flash .. It means nothing gained or a bit slower .. A close match from what he was using before .. Now I'm not saying the flash is bad .. What I'm saying is his testing was not done right .. It needed to be the same day same track .. Four or 5 runs on one flash and four or 5 runs on the other flash to get good data .. And that needs to be repeated on a another day to back up the data ..The testing need to be done on a 1/4 mile track and using back half numbers only to take out some rider errors in the 60 foot and 330 times .. Using the MPH and ET from the 1/8 mile mark to the 1/4 mile mark ..This kind of data can tell us a lot about the tune ..

* Last updated by: Smokinzx14 on 9/7/2014 @ 10:44 PM *

Lol But yet Cblast you posted Don flash ( picture of his flash )right here and called what ? But you didn't look at it? .... Right you took the picture with your eyes closed ?...funny ... Even with you telling me to f--k off and calling me names I'm still willing to test it ..

* Last updated by: Smokinzx14 on 9/7/2014 @ 10:51 PM *

I took a fuzzy upside down picture of his safety map still in because when I said it still was, that was called into question. I admit to lookin at it, at all of the various flashes. I said that clearly. Several times. I just didn't steal them 'for testing'. And yes, I told you to fuck off. Anyone that threatens me will most likely get at least told to fuck off. But I did not call you any names.
And Mav was only slightly slower (ET (mph was higher)), because the humidity was ridiculous. He mentioned that several times, but maybe you didn't read that part.

* Last updated by: Cblast on 9/7/2014 @ 11:30 PM *

Night all , I had all I can take of these thread , if Cblast wants me to test it he can PM me .. I'm done here, I have unsubscribed this thread .. Good luck guys and go fast ..

@Hub, c'mon, think. We don't use wooly exclusively. Yes, In my opinion it's the finest ecu flashing tool we have. But that doesn't mean I threw away my Legos man. ;)

1000 feet yes big difference , 121 feet zero .. He ran slower with your flash .. It means nothing gained or a bit slower.

True dat.

'Nothing gained or a bit slower' and even I saw that. That's why I'm just not convinced [we] have the goods on everyone, C. Again, I'm after the processing of it, not after low ET or going faster meaning. What I'm trying to figure out C, is as if you took a hack at the GPS with a resistor and began shouting your hack outperformed Ivan's tre.

Are you seeing what I'm seeing when that kitECU shows you you are out of range with the cell number you put in and it +'s to the right side or a - on the left horizontal line, the whole cell line across that one cell you fucked up is now in a limp/backup situation. But the wooly does not show this like kawi's own racing ECU. See what I'm saying about this flash outperforms this flash and some are hitting the + side it goes limp or the - side and limped once again.

Limp 6 at the GPS = Bottom grunt.
Flashed and no +/- showing = Bottom grunt.
1. Wire out of connector = Bottom grunt.
2. Connector not connected = Bottom grunt.
3. Signal out of range = Bottom grunt.
4. Took a resistor and shorted a wire = Bottom grunt.
5. Bought a tre and on came the 6 = Bottom grunt.
6. I came along and picked up any resistor and shoved it in between ground and the wire = My Bottom grunt is better than your bottom grunt.
7. Who said that?
8. Oh go fuck yourself, Kolfa. LOL [jk]
9. You shoved a coffee maker resistor at it and now mines faster.
10. Whyou! I oughta take my 220 resistor and stick it right back in and I'll beat you bad with that one!
11. Opens to page in the shop manual and reads code number. Looks out at the crowd in the room.

Are here!

The answer there hub is:
Don't fuck up any cell numbers. ;)

... if Cblast wants me to test it he can PM me ...

Well, that leaves the OP hanging. I'm back to fueling with the pc and I'm going to change my ign all to one number and see how much knock I'm going to cause? Because I was knocking that day the front end hit that hot tar, plus I never pulled over to see if the stock ECU would stop knocking? And I'm sure those are some tiny balls of aluminum leaving that piston at peak kinetic.

Dumbass thinks he/they can get away with a flash and it knocks like a mother under warranty? You can't hide that. I'd check your plugs. And if they were new, I'd scope the cylinder at the spark plug hole = GOTTCHA!

And I'm done here too.

Where is this fact comin from that the stock clutch slips at above 200. Prove that. My clutch is fine at the top of sixth. I have done it many times straight IN FRONT OF FORUM MEMBERS HERE. I'm damn sure I hit 200 on the way home from the track with Pirate a couple weeks back. My clutch holds great. He saw it as I melted 6th and I have never felt any slip

C, I too have proved it on more than one bike. Another debate started up on this is most certainly Not Needed.

"If" your bike makes more than 200 hp you are slipping.

Smookin has provided you with Good solid info. This is well known. More info,Click There should be no doubt as many have proved it.

When my bike was on the Dyno at RCC we could not even make a partial tune as anything over Two Hundred Horse Power was slipping between every gear. At 5500RPM I was blowing right through clutch. Beast bike the same.

Sounds like some here may not have known this. Which is fine but if you want every last ounce to the pavement go for the Brock Springs. They come with shims to provide even more. With all shims installed clutch will hold 260hp fine but lets go again after 280 Hp. After this Lock Up.

Picture here shows Bike strapped down HARD. Making sure it was not Tire spin we were seeing. Clutch at 200 had nothing.

* Last updated by: Romans on 9/8/2014 @ 4:51 AM *

This is a classic example where if people don’t learn a thing or two on how to interact with the public, they would fail as businessmen if they don’t manage their anger. The arrogance, anger and hostility spewed forth out of control, the superiority complex, the name calling when people disagree is simply unprofessional from someone trying to cash in selling a product. It is a mystery to me how people can support a person who likes to bash other providers. Even Roman’s was insulted, a guy that has contributed so much to this forum.

If a product is good, let the numbers do the talking. There is no need to fly off the handle and run around the forum insulting other providers and shoving the product down other people's throats.

This is a guy that cannot even perform a simple routine check-up on his own drive chain to take a trip cross-country, and then gets stranded 500 miles into the trip.

I think this is my last comment on this forum for a while. Adios, see you guys around.

Let the insults begin in ....3....2....1....

! ! Ugh ! !

Always sad to see threads turn ugly. In most cases I don't see what the fuss is about. Maybe some guys just have more passion in their WANT to believe in "only one way". Blinds us to what could be. Money In most cases Being The Route Cause of the Blindness.

Some of us others just want cold hard facts with out opinions. The science here is the only constant and even It's interpretation is often skewed. Comes down to, What is and fact and what is fiction must be determined by you the reader.

For me, Always comes back to the same thing.

We All Have The Same Size Motors, Capable Of Taking In The Same Amount Of Air And Fuel, we can all burn it the same way. So what's the Big Deal???? Does anyone really believe it's possible to make twenty more horse power than the bike next to you With out some thing being a miss ,,,,,,,,?

The ZX14 Drag Racers have provided us with solid data of what works, copy and you will be happy. Promise.

So whom flashed your machine and made it knock hub?

* Last updated by: Cblast on 9/8/2014 @ 6:58 AM *

You can cause a clutch to slip by strapping a bike down too hard. Strap it down not enough, and you get tire spin. It's a happy medium. I think I made it clear in my post that I have seen clutches fail. I have also seen clutches last a long time. When running the bike on the dyno, you simply bring up the 'speed' data. If your clutch is slipping you will show an erratic speed jump in the line on the dyno. Again, my point on clutches was:
Can a clutch spring kit help? Sure. Is it strictly necessary on every bike. Heck no. If a bike isn't gonna live its life at the dragstrip or on the dyno, the stock clutch can provide excellent life and performance.

That would be me, C. I have the [basic] wooly setup, the bin, the now working computer. Toggled a few things, etc. This was a hot day, and I just remembered. I had the gps hacks flashing on the dash and that may have changed the ignition. Ah, there's another variable to the pings.

Bought an ECU and started in with the bin/etc. That test day was AFR reads on the gps hack. So on lift we have 18a in flash. One hack at the gps wire(s), 18a. I can't find my 16.5a as in the first gen did not have k-skid. Now, k-skid is hooked in with the gps.

First Gen:
Locked 6 = 18a
N Locked = 16.5a or the pop is gone on lift.

Second Gen:
Locked 6 = 18a Pings?
N Locked = 18a or No Joy! Pings!

Or, it was the weather and my subs are locked open too. Plus, reg gas. Too many variables to chase the flash as the ping problem.

I am not familiar with dynos. But how would strapping down the bike too much yield clutch spin? Not a smart ass remark or anything... Just curious. I would think that since the rear wheel spins freely on a dyno strapping it will just insure no wheel spin but may give you an inaccurate (street, real?) hp reading... Hell if you completely over tighten it your bike would bottom out befor seeing clutch spin no??? .

Edjewmicate me.

* Last updated by: Fazer on 9/8/2014 @ 8:03 AM *

Thank God I have an untampered with stock ECU right here;)All this yaking about 'caution' and flash jargon...sheesh...resetting TC to 'OFF' every startup aint lookin so 'in the way' as this continues;)....Maybe my limiter SHOULD stay at 11,500LOL!!!God knows she hits that with ease...before I even have time to 'respond'...sheesh.I'm definitely NOT feeling any clutch slip with mine...ever.

If you strap it down too tight then run it out to top of fourth or fifth, the tire cannot expand vertically as it should (you have seen tires grow in height profile from high speed spin), instead that expansion has to go somewhere, strapped down too tight, it goes to clutch, strap down too loose, it buffs the tire. Nels has probably done 100,000 dyno runs with just motorcycles, never mind his car tuning. I learn from everything he teaches. He will share his knowledge and help anyone. One of the most generous and intelligent men I have ever met. If anyone thinks I am off base I would encourage them to give him a shout. We work together as partners with regards to this flash and the directions we are developing with tuning the 14R. He has been my mentor and my Jedi, thank you Nels!
Nels / 2WHEEL DYNOWORKS / 425-269-5332

* Last updated by: Cblast on 9/8/2014 @ 8:26 AM *

Seriously now...can anyone here tell me can a rightly set A/F throughout the rpm range regardless of limiters raised or ignition adjustments damage a motor like these.I don't mean...drag racing type riding...street riding with hard roll ons and top end runs(once in a while).Could I actually feel or tell if my engine was being harmed?I'm speaking of a flashed ecu...no PCV.My temps run VERY good.Regardless of how I'm riding.PROBABLY even better than the stock settings.If I don't belong in this thread...just say so..it's cool;)

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 9/8/2014 @ 8:30 AM *

You can cause a clutch to slip by strapping a bike down too hard. Strap it down not enough, and you get tire spin. It's a happy medium. I think I made it clear in my post that I have seen clutches fail. I have also seen clutches last a long time. When running the bike on the dyno, you simply bring up the 'speed' data. If your clutch is slipping you will show an erratic speed jump in the line on the dyno. Again, my point on clutches was:
Can a clutch spring kit help? Sure. Is it strictly necessary on every bike. Heck no. If a bike isn't gonna live its life at the dragstrip or on the dyno, the stock clutch can provide excellent life and performance.

If you strap it down too tight then run it out to top of fourth or fifth, the tire cannot expand vertically as it should (you have seen tires grow in height profile from high speed spin), instead that expansion has to go somewhere, strapped down too tight, it goes to clutch, strap down too loose, it buffs the tire. Nels has probably done 100,000 dyno runs with just motorcycles, never mind his car tuning. I learn from everything he teaches. He will share his knowledge and help anyone. One of the most generous and intelligent men I have ever met. If anyone thinks I am off base I would encourage them to give him a shout. We work together as partners with regards to this flash and the directions we are developing with tuning the 14R. He has been my mentor and my Jedi, thank you Nels!
Nels / 2WHEEL DYNOWORKS / 425-269-5332

Not sure what to say here C Implies Richard may not know his way around a Dyno. I assure you All proper tests proving clutch does indeed slip at high 190s low two hundred were performed.

Richard while working on my Bike left for Bahrain. These guys sent for him $$$$$$$$$$$ Big Money, I'm assuming he knows his way around a Dyno lol. When was the last time someone felt your knowledge was important enough to send a jet for you or anyone you know ???? Maybe C just take everyone word for it on this one. Or not, No Big-E

Ive seen the expansion of the tire on a dyno (Centrifugal force, no?) but is that really enough to cause clutch slippage under too much strap load??? You'd think that the tire would just take even more abuse (heat) if strapped down too much. After all the tire is just rubber.

This will be a question for RCC at my upcoming dyno-day.... Assuming i can get my bike to run