Do I have this right ? Please correct me if I am wrong, Thank you

A more comparable bike to Caps ran : 199 at the mile, 201 at the 1.5. and Cap10ted's bike went 204/207 on pump gas ?
and people bringing up shit from different years ? Running MR12, seasoned riders ?

And I cannot speak for others that have Guhls/brock flash that some seem to be advertising,
but C's flash was just hands down better than Guhls ....

I know one more thing, C isn't flashing freaking GROMs or selling high priced performance
parts for them ....

Again, please correct me if I am wrong, I am just trying to get the facts ....

* Last updated by: carabuser on 9/1/2014 @ 10:20 PM *

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Cap10ted's bike went 204/207 on pump gas ?

Well, you ended that with a question mark so gas is what in hp gain? 1hp per cylinder?

and people bringing up shit from different years ? Running MR12, seasoned riders ?

I brought up seasoned rider, yes. Different bikes as in gen1 vs. gen2? So gas and year so far, we call the riders even. How many bikes am I counting flashed? Shane, Rachael, Cap'son, Cap10 = 4?

4 flashes times 4 bikes, yes or no? Don't get pissed off like my buddy hangs in the pits and knows people/riders I don't, then expects me to know who rode what bike and I'm not even there, he gets all wound up as if I knew what was going on that day/month/year in that pit.

Fly off the handle all you want and run around the room. If you think I need to be thrown in a padded cell you bring up the weak bike and who didn't leak after a run? WE dealing wit amateurs here? No air compressor, no leak tester, my bike's time was bla-bla-for shit now... 'the best can be beaten.' This whole thing is going downhill by 1psi times 4, let alone that 1hp between peppy and leaky.

And I cannot speak for others that have Guhls/brock flash that some seem to be advertising,
but C's flash was just hands down better than Guhls ...

I have no skin in this game. My only interest is how the ECU processes, be it flashed or not and I can see that curve in the chart change, thank you for that. To me it should be hands down someone, but there is camp Don/Brock and then camp C and his flash. I don't know if Rome's flash is any different than a $75 bang from Shutzy, or from Ivan's?

Again, please correct me if I am wrong, I am just trying to get the facts ....

This is fact gathering. Why just yesterday we were shown what a weekend out does for the 200plus crowd. And when I find the highest number of one camp, the highest number of the other camp, you mix up nuts/bolts/screws/gas/grease/hand-eye/psi = A number.

If this is the net and no info comes hither like who oiled the chain next round, who forgot/didn'think during the day? That is just one slip of the tongue we have a spinning problem and that's the complaint off the bike by 1mph. Where is the other camp complained about slip? So, back to 1mph slip me a complaint or are we playing with date that is/worn out for worn/gen for gen/slip for slip/map for map/psi for psi/gas for gas/flash for flash = 1 mph diff.

How much fact gathering do you see or am I making this up as we go. I think so. Net-info-net... That mother foo yucking how many times do I have to repeat feet for feet where is my penultimate? Imagine, the video opens with a huge leakdown 0-100 gauge, but pans back you can't figure it out yet. Here comes that big dick behind the beard and he says 'Blowwww!' The camera is still panning back and his dick falls out of his beard past the lens and onto the gauge.

Signed,

I have no fucking clue who has whathell... Only your leakdown knows for sure. Who has their leakdown notes, raise their hand. I am on a flashing for dashing gathering info for the other side. Oh, there you go thinking I'm up someone's ass is it? Show me how to get up Pen's ass, show me the way... Man, good round of info, cara. I'm not thinking this out, nor adding things up like you brought in.

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Can't call riders even... Sorry boys, I think Rachael has more than an edge here.
Shane was offering assistance for all. Which is great. There was help involved. Form, tuck, gearing. Thats why it kept going faster. More seat time, more mods, is C done tweaking, probobly not. Shane will get the green bike ironed out.

Acknowledgement needs to be made, rather than a bash for 1 mph or .1 sec. WOT is not the only on facet of the equation. Lets just say for arguments sake thats the best raw data split we have right now with the cblast vs the ecu pcv combo. The Cblast flash absolutely crushes the ecu pcv combo in everyday drveability and part thottle and road course scenerios. Im not sure where romans flash is in the game but i am willing to bet his is also smoother than the ecu pcv combo.

There is a reason why i pulled the PCV off of my bike. Rich idle, jerky throttle in every position other than WOT. 3% fueling increments an no control of individual cylinders is not the way to go IMHO. My background is mainly LS1 cars. In the 90's it was resistor boxes, then flash the chip (Buick GN). Then came the ability to flash the factory ecu, which was a game changer. 750 hp turbo LS1 running a factory ecu and stock longblock. Not just because of the good factory internals, but the ability to tune the thing more precisely and allow it to be more streetable. Now there are affordable aftermarket ecu options with additional inputs, triggers and adjustment tables. Fast big stuff comes to mind. Granted its been a while since i tuned my cars, mainly due to lack of time, but the principles are the same. The 14r has many more and nicer sensors to utilize.

How much longer can the eggs all in one basket last against the inevitable? Why is there continued backlash rather than support? Money.....

I wouldnt knock brock for Grom performance parts. Hes a smart businessman and true racer at heart. That 125cc grom class is competative and getting huge. Its an affordable bike, and like all racers at heart, if it has wheels, its gonna get raced. Hell, Nasty races against tractors for a $3 plastic trophy (hahahaha).

Why the guy with the bone stock bike held together by tape continues to try to be the voice of reason is beyond me. Who is he protecting? Iknow for sure anyone running Sebbs or Romans flash wont be dissapointed or asking for a refund. If he only knew what i knew that hasnt been said and im not sure when or who will say it. Will he be the first one to change his tune?

* Last updated by: fatsix on 9/2/2014 @ 6:55 AM *

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Well said crash6. Gettin flashed is way better than running a pcv. The CBLAST flash is smooth, controllable and predictable. No jerkyness or nothing. If I have any questions, I can make one call and get answers with the flash. With the pcv, it's a guessing game. Got the dyno sheets to prove it. The flash has way more benefits and is ultimately cheaper.

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Shane will get the green bike ironed out.

Okay, here we go. Once again I am not in their pit. I have no clue if green went faster, who rode it, what time it has so I am going to fuck things up because I AM CLUELESS MAKE A LIST> Who rode peppy, who rode leaky, what times, what rider, wattune? WATT FUNKING TUNE WE TALKING ABOUT? WRITE the fuck now I have everyone ALL FLASH YES OR NO? FOR FUCKSAKE! LOL

Acknowledgement needs to be made, rather than a bash for 1 mph or .1 sec.

For fucksake, I am saying 1 vs. 1 is flash vs.flash. ARE WE ON THE SAME PAGE? And I don't give a shit how many pages I am not in the pit to know who rode who and the tune IS????????

... for arguments sake thats the best raw data split we have right now with the cblast vs the ecu pcv combo.

HEEREEEEEEEEEEWWWWWWEEEEEEEE GO AGAIN!!!! I AM NOT IN THE FUCIKING THE CLUCKING PITS! WHO THE FUCK IS RUNNING PIG AND WHO IS RUNNING FUCKING FLASH ALONE? I have asked that question [posts back] so I've been saying all along both variables???????? 1 mph?????????? Get it yet? I can say flash for flash or flash for pig/flash = 1 mph. I have no fucking clue I AM NOT IN THEIR PIT I look at a simple connector under the fucking throttle body it's so fucking simple. LOL This is fun!

The Cblast flash absolutely crushes the ecu pcv combo in everyday driveability and part thottle and road course scenerios.

This is how I wind up my buddy and I'll do the same to you. I have given up on a simple yes or no who has what on the bike but that is not going to come so here where we make a bike/jobber list or I will and it will be for naught.

There is a reason why i pulled the PCV off of my bike.

OK, who the fuck are you and were you in the pits? I have no clue if you are pit help, just posting, a camp already camped out and I'm still waiting for the tune of each bike. So do not rear up on my ass if you are seeing I am pitless to who has what plugged in [their] bike? I have no clue if it's 3 14's and the son took a ride on dad's 14 and that says 3 bikes? I know for sure 3 and that's it. A bike that ran well/a bike needs help/cap10's.

Why is there continued backlash rather than support?

It's not about bank but final number. Did a flash beat a flash/pig and next post I list the bike and tune scenarios.

Why the guy with the bone stock bike held together by tape continues to try to be the voice of reason is beyond me.

Glue, not tape. (covers mouth smilie) I am not the voice of reason, I'm looking for a flip-flop. I could give 2-shits about the performance change. My deal is clearing up one simple pass of 2 bikes and their tune.

Who is he protecting?

One more time. I am protecting the Penultimate number. It is 760mmHg. Every gulp the same number. Bet me. I am rather trying to figure out the processing. With pig or without are two camps. That's one binary and only one binary makes the peak torque, yes?

* Last updated by: Hub on 9/2/2014 @ 8:07 AM *

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She/ane: Both ran a PC&Flash = 212mph.
Cap10: Best run was = 211mph.

She/ane: Both ran Don's flash alone = 212mph.
Cap10: Is a given that means flash only = 211mph.

Run around the room She/ane with pig? Yes, Outperformed a pig.
Run around the room flash heads-up? No, novice rider lost by a mile per hour.

How simple did I make it?

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Hub. Just step back out of the pits. Your way over complicating it. Your not "that" guy..

Rachael rode both bikes, she is also an accomplished drag racer. Use the times from that day only.

Rachaels bike- 199/201. Basic ecu flash, non ghul. Not sure if sehe was running the extended arm or not. Pcv map tweaked by shane who owns the other bike.

Shanes bike- 207/211. Ghul2/pcv mapped for mr212 fuel. BSTs, having trouble finding which other mods, sorry.

Caps bike 204/207. Cblasted, pump gas, clutch mod. What else?

If Rachael has better aero and launch, does she run faster on caps bike than shanes?

* Last updated by: fatsix on 9/2/2014 @ 8:51 AM *

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Hub, I wasn't talking about you, I thought you had about the same view I did ? I am talking about Kofla, but I am still trying to get all the facts,
BUT I do have first hand experience between the flash I got from guhl and the flash I got from C,

I am no racer, I am not even a great rider, BUT I know my own bike(s) and I heard a difference
the minute I started the bike after C flashed it, my son rides on the back, and even he felt the difference, and he didn't even know I put C's flash in ... I do have some experience, I grew up watching Byron Hines build
engines when they had the small shop in Santa Fe springs, not that they are personal friends,
but I have been into motorcycles for over 40 years .. RC engineering, APE, Muzzy, orient express,
these guys have been building engines for years ....

This is not the first time that someone from the brock/guhl camp has brought up totally different
bikes, differnt tracks,differnt times of the year etc ... to compare to another bike

From Cap, "I was using Sunoco regular yes that's right Regular..Regular gas with multiply runs of 205 and 207. I switch to VP T4 for my sons 208 run. Stock Bridgestone S20 tires
gearing was 17/40. I brought the stock 42 and a 39. I was going to switch to the 39 but Shane said to stick with the 40 and concentrate on form.. Since we were well over 200 as is."

* Last updated by: carabuser on 9/2/2014 @ 9:22 AM *

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I grew up watching Byron... not that they are personal friends,
but I have been into motorcycles for over 40 years

Cara, small world. I've got a few stories about Byron/Russ, Byron being naturally funny. And I have screen disease because I see 211 was the She/ane Pit. I thought cap10 had the 211. Now it makes [partial] sense. Not too much I can say now. This was no No heads-up flash for flash.

Shanes bike- 207/211. Ghul2/pcv mapped for mr212 fuel. BSTs, having trouble finding which other mods, sorry.

Caps bike 204/207. Cblasted, pump gas, clutch mod. What else?

No, my apologies, fat. The 211 was half my battle was my own faulty fuckup. Now I see She/ane runs Don's 2nd flashed update? Shane made up his own map attempt for fuel?

OK, I am going to try and make this a clean sheet, pit for pit, let me work the percentages, because there is no flash head to head mph number.

207 = That's Don't 2nd attempt if 'Ghul2' means an update. Map for race fuel. Race fuel for HP in liquid form. Well prepped bike. Experienced rider.

204 = 3 mph differ against a not as close a prep of a bike to wight ratioshithis is looking like I need to tie my laces sort of tight. A rider that is his first time out and not so open at the throttle apply. Shane is not saying too much more on the prep, not that he's hiding things, it's the time, other things to talk about so is this "Peppy" vs. 3mph or is this, "Leaky" that everyone needs a leak to be even up air wise. Gas wise is easy. Wheels are, wait, I'm still tying my other sneaker, but how do I split the MPH?

Prep(massage): .5 mph
Rider:(lag leaver vs. game on) .5 mph
Wheels(weight): .5 mph
Gas makes HP: .5 mph.
Throw out the variable and say the map: .5 mph = 3mph

The jury is out in my pit. Why?:

1. I can't run a flash with a leakdown not being equal between both bikes.
2. I cannot make that close of a call just because of gas/weight/rider/prep/???PSI???
3. I could see Mav take a shot at both black boxes on the same day.
4. I could see "The Hand" as a second set of numbers and Smoke swaps boxes same day.

So to be objective with this, you dissect my observation and call it. Right now it's for sure not a draw we strip the map/weight/gas. There is a lot going on between bike/rider/tune and now it's 3mph and change.

How close am I? I have no bone to pick with anyone.

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Your close enough that the rider makes the difference at that speed. Lookin at pictures shanes bike is pretty low. Caps head sticking too far above the windscreen, ass not up high enough? Clutch on the green bike not holding enough to push a 200 mph airwall? Little shit.

I still wanna see the list of mods for both bikes.

* Last updated by: fatsix on 9/2/2014 @ 4:15 PM *

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CBLAST

My ECU's part number is 21175-0838. I've verified this on the ECU itself. This also matches whats in my Kawi Service Manual (2012 & 2013, pg. 3-112). According to the Service Manual this same part number is used for ZX1400ED/FD (no ABS/ABS), and US or Canada W/O Immobilizer (Cal is a different PN).

I've read other sites which state that '12 (ZX1400EC 21175-0714) can use '13s ECU. The question was if their '12 could use a '13 ECU. Apparently this was verified with Guhl that either will work, at least for the '12. It's easier to find '12 ECUs for probably pretty obvious reasons. Do you know of any reason I couldn't use a '12s 21175-0714?

14 abs-21175-0838
13 abs-21175-0838
14. 21175-0838
13. 21175-0838
12. 21175-0714

CA is 0839 for 12-14

Looks like 13+ ecu is the same abs or not. I would think you could swap any non ca 12 ecu into any 13+ non abs bike. Dunno about backwards compatable.

Anyone with a 13+ non abs wanna try it?

* Last updated by: fatsix on 9/2/2014 @ 8:13 PM *

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No reason it shouldn't work Vic. I have run both those part # ecu's in Priscilla as she is a 12.

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Fatsix, looking for some info in the science of the tuning side of things. Any chance you saw or talked to anyone data logging AFR lines of what works at 210 plus miles per hour ? Anyone Tweeking up or down searching for more mph ?

Let me try to explain Where I'm coming from. As most of us, I have the belief there is always "More" just waiting to be had in the tuning side of things. In this case searching for the best 200 plus mph AFR line has my curiosity.

It has been shown and tested repeatedly that that the Brock AFR line of 14 AFR runs the fastest down the 1/4. To date my belief is his AFR line still stands.

That being said, in the building of the Maps we know ruffly where the fueling needs to be whether it's Flashed or Power commander. Guys have been searching from 2012 for a faster AFR line but would appear the science has stopped here. For now ?

Ok, the Ram Air affect, What I'm searching for is solid info where as I do not know how much the bike leans out at 210 plus miles per hour from the 164 mile per hour in the 1/4. It has been said Ram Air changes AFR up to a point in MPH, after X MPH makes no difference. Would love some info if you have or noticed anyone Data logging. Would a richer AFR provide more torque with a cooler motor yielding more ??? If I was to build a Flash Just for 210 plus guys, tweek in what direction to help ? It's such a small are to work on in the RPM window data logging info would make it to very easy to adjust using real world info.

Maybe to much time watching Bill Warner's videos but his study of the science at the above 200 plus was solid. I really enjoyed reading and learning from his approach. So many variables,,,,,. Anyway the science has me.

Off topic I know, but you guys were there and now you here,,,had to ask. Cheers

Shanes bike mods froman earlier posts.
My intake/exhaust/ecu:

47mm throttle bodies, no secondary plates
All short oem stacks
Air filter without screen
Brock's CT Meg
Guhl ECU Flash
PCV

Romans, lemme think about for a bit. I gotta look at some math.

I will say if your airbox isn't fully sealed its not gonna make a difference.

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No reason it shouldn't work Vic. I have run both those part # ecu's in Priscilla as she is a 12.

SWEEET!

Shanes bike mods froman earlier posts.
My intake/exhaust/ecu:

47mm throttle bodies, no secondary plates vs. Did he keep his in?
All short oem stacks vs. I'm sure he's stock running.
Air filter without screen vs. He may have cut that off a (used filter)?
Brock's CT Meg vs. Are they the same pipe?
Guhl ECU Flash vs. Obviously
PCV vs none.
Furniture vs. move out the way.
Sneakers vs. tighten the laces.
Runs around the room vs. 3mph only after all that??

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Looks like the 47mm tbs are worth 3mph in the 1/4 mile. Did we run around the room and wind up back in the same spot?

I say the other bike should be cblasted.

* Last updated by: fatsix on 9/6/2014 @ 9:31 PM *

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PCV vs. Flash....this question can never get answer right

PCV vs. Flash....this question can never get answer right

SlowmoZX14 the answers are all here. PCV is a stand alone after ECU piggy Back controller. Alone it does not have the capabilities, nor can it accomplish what can be done inside ECU with flash. Nor was in designed for that,,,, make sense ? PCV is Fuel only.

The two should not be compared to each other. Yes they both do fueling but that is the only thing they have in common.

Both the flashing software and the PCV are tools. Use them for their intended use and you will be happy. Not sure what other answers you hoping to find. There is no Magic Pill, sorry.

The answer to your question should be very clear in the above thread.

Hope this helps cheers.

Diff's between Flash and P....

Flash:
Detailed Ign map - Yes
Detailed Fuel map - Yes
Sub Opening Speeds - Yes
RPM Limiter - Yes
Filtering 'Smoothing' - Yes
MPH Limiter - Yes
Stay sequential -Yes
Set sequence fire as 1 - Yes
Gear Maps - Yes
Did I miss some - Yes

PC:

Detailed Ign map - No - But can change
Detailed Fuel map - No - But can change
Sub Opening Speeds - No
RPM Limiter - No - But can change
Filtering 'Smoothing' - No
MPH Limiter - No
Stay sequential - No
Set sequence fire as 1 - No
Gear Maps - No
Did I miss some - No

Tune:
Is the [dyno] Flash frequency line narrowed as in more torque, less HP- Yes
Is the PC resetting or affecting a narrow torque band as a flash does? - No

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Diff's between Flash and P....

Flash:
Detailed Ign map - Yes
Detailed Fuel map - Yes
Sub Opening Speeds - Yes
RPM Limiter - Yes
Filtering 'Smoothing' - Yes
MPH Limiter - Yes
Stay sequential -Yes
Set sequence fire as 1 - Yes
Gear Maps - Yes
Did I miss some - Yes

Miss someone ? Well maybe. Not all flashes include Detailed Ignition Maps. Not all include Detailed Fuel Maps. So Not all can be called Flash of the Month Lol Flash Of The Month, Click

Some others only 75 Dollars, missing the best parts Click

* Last updated by: Romans on 9/8/2014 @ 4:09 AM *

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Shane wasn't even going to run his record bike , so he didn't do any prep work to the bike ..He used old MR12 that was a ONE YEAR OLD PRE OPENED CAN !!!!! Anybody that runs MR12 will tell you just a few weeks of opening the can it goes flat and loses power ..Old MR12 is not better than pump gas , if anything it's worse than fresh pump gas .. To be fair you can't compare what Capt10ed and Shane and Rachael did that day .. It's apples Vs oranges at best ..My hat is off the both Capt10ed and Shane and Rachael for running that fast .. I don't think I could do it and I'm not sure I would even want to try .. Rachaels bike was missing the clutch mod and springs and spacers .. We all know the stock clutch on the zx14r is border line from the factory ..Ad a pipe and tune and the clutch will not handle the 1/4 without slippage on the top end ( proven fact ) Now add 200 MPH wind to that factor and the stock clutch is worthless .. Shane has the clutch mod but didn't have time to install it , Rachael's bike would have been much faster with the clutch mod ..Shane ECU flash wasn't real a flash .. He just removed the limiters..So all 3 bikes were not apples to apple testing ..

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Shane ECU flash wasn't real a flash .. He just removed the limiters.

Apples to oranges it is.

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