Today I finished installing my Autotune, but couldn't get it to read. I called dynojet and after a few minutes of troubleshooting he suggested I may have an exhaust leak and the bike was running too lean to send trims through the Autotune.

At idle and after warming up it was bouncing between 15 and 16 AFR. So I pulled the headers back off and checked the gaskets (they were still in the motor) and even added some copper based gasket sealant for good measure. Also added some to the O2 sensor I installed. Then I blew cigar smoke into the header area, I really don't think it's leaking.

So it my AFR too lean for normal? I tried with both the unmodded map provided by dynojet and one for 2 slip ons, which I have.

Any ideas?

Well as I befuddled way through this lol....

I just turned my idle down slightly, just above a grand, and my AFRs are in the mid 14s at idle now.

I am new to this, but if I open my allowances in the Autotune configuration enough (they are 20 percent now) it should produce some trims I can accept to get the bike to the 13.2 my current map is set at, correct?

I would not worry about running dangerously lean at idle unless it's insanely lean. I have seen 18-20 at start up before and I think that may have been caused by my attempts to tune for idle. I did hear the motor stumble once because it was not getting enough fuel.

A lot of things happen with fueling at start up as you know. There may even be some kind of fuel adjustments done by the ECU when you do a start on a fully warmed up bike.

If you are seeing 16 AFR that would definitely concern me at high rpm but if the engine is running smoothly at idle, you are saving gas by running lean. If that is what the ECU fueling gives you for AFR at idle, remember that it would be fueling for stock exhaust which you have replaced with aftermarket mufflers. If you have a map with fuel adjustments in the cells where the bike idles, that in conjunction with the slipons is the reason it is running lean.

I do not recall ever letting my bike run on stock mapping at idle so I can't tell you what the normal AFR should be. I do not have the stock exhaust on either so ...I guess I would have to put that back on to find the real stock AFR# at idle.

Dj does not recommend tuning the 0% TP column. I recall trying, got all sorts of funny results and finally decided to give up since the bike was idling fine with no trims accepted at idle.

The way to tune for idle is just let AutoTune do it closed loop. Input your 13.2 in all cells of the Target AFR table (if that is what you want for starters) and if AT is ON, it will adjust the AFR to 13.2 for you within a few seconds.

Go to the box where you set your min/max trim % and set the minimum run time to 120 seconds. This will allow the ECU to adjust fueling on its own until the engine warms up. If you try to map for idle, the ECU will fight it like crazy at a cold start. Let the ECU do the fueling at startup as long as the bike runs good. After 120 seconds, you'll see the AutoTune Running indicator come on and your AFR will go to 13.2 You'll see that Autotune is too slow to keep the AFR at a perfect 13.2 but it will keep it very close as long as you leave the throttle at 0%.

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...so, I would say, yes, you will get some trims at idle for sure if you are running a 14 AFR and your target is 13.2

If you accept the trims, I think you will find out what I'm talking about when I say the ECU will fight it at startup. I'd leave tuning for idle up to your ECU and AutoTune.

If you have your target AFR table filled in, I would start by accepting trims in the cruising range. You can do this in Neutral. DO have the bike ready to go for a cool down run AS SOON as you have completed the Neutral run OR have a good fan set up to cool the engine. It's NOT necessary to do minute long Neutral runs. I do mine on the roadside in about 20 seconds now that I have it down and take off right away to cool the engine off. If you have hot weather I would be extra careful about overheating.

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Gotcha. I will mess with it today. My main concern was that the Autotune running light never comes on on the laptop, and no trims were provided even after a 10 minute ride. I believe the Autotune is functioning, upon startup the Autotune box itself flickers green for a few seconds and then stays solid. It is wired to a switched 12v source.

Would that be a symptom of me not giving the Autotune the percentage allowance to bridge the gap? Several times I went to the option where you can either accept or delete autotune trims and there was nothing there.

This is what I am getting. On this video the bike is mostly warmed up, however I have ran it until the fan kicks in and the Autotune still never came on.

Am I missing something?

* Last updated by: projo198 on 3/24/2017 @ 9:40 AM *

Sorry one last question; how exactly do I set the Autotune to run closed loop? Is that merely setting all the inputs to 13.2 as you mentioned with a 120 second run time, or is that another configuration I have to choose?

I am at work away from my bike so I am trying to get as much info as I can before I go home and mess with it again.

Thanks in advance!

My main concern was that the Autotune running light never comes on on the laptop

First, are you sure Autotune has been officially added to your Dj network? Check step 34 HERE

If the AT device has been added to your network, the software will recognize it and you will know this because the Autotune folder will be displayed in the Table Manager along with Map Position 1 and primary Module.

It is possible to display Autotune tables without having Autotune. If Show Auto tune tables even if Power Commander is not auto tune enabled is selected (step 23), you can view Autotune tables from the Map file you have loaded or from a map on your computer. If this is the case, Autotune will be indicated in green (instead of white) text in the Table Manager.

Step 30 shows how Autotune is turned OFF/ON. If you have not checked the ON box, Autotune is just shut off. There are some situations where you want to have it off temporarily.

answering more of your ?? in a few.

* Last updated by: Rook on 3/24/2017 @ 12:48 PM *

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no trims were provided even after a 10 minute ride.

Would be normal if AT was shut OFF.

also, are you clicking Trims table > GET TABLE

If you just click the Trims table, that is the last trims table that was in the map-----NOT the current trims table that was generated by AT.

If you watch that whole video I posted, you see I am surprised to click trims and see a table filled with 0s. That's the trims table in the map that zeros by default after trims are accepted. Gets me every time.

...but if your Autotune Running indicator never comes on, I think you have it shut off or it has not been accepted to the network.

....more coming.

* Last updated by: Rook on 3/24/2017 @ 12:49 PM *

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I believe the Autotune is functioning, upon startup the Autotune box itself flickers green for a few seconds and then stays solid.

That is VERY good. If the light on the module flashes when you key on and is solid after, you know Autotune is functioning. It is probable however that the status light is on even if the device is shut off in the software or not accepted to the network.

Would that be a symptom of me not giving the Autotune the percentage allowance to bridge the gap? Several times I went to the option where you can either accept or delete autotune trims and there was nothing there.

If you have the min/max% enrich/enlean both set at 20, that is plenty. It would be astronomically improbable that your Dj map would be that close that you would not get any trims. Even if your map is perfect, you will still often get trims of 1 or 2 in many cells. AFR changes extremely easy. Being off by a few% at any given time is totally normal. You see how mine is always changing in my vid. It's more steady at higher rpm but i never see a solid 13.2 on mine. I would if Autotune was a lot faster but you work with what you got.

As far as seeing no trims, the only advice I have is to say what I said before- I think you either are not click ing GET TABLE or you don't have Autotune turned ON in the software. If the Autotune Running indicator is not on, you must have it shut OFF.

checking out your video now...

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think you have your AT shut OFF, dude. The video shows no AT Running indicator but also, there is 0 fuel adjustment if you watch that gauge. The Fuel Adj is the trim. That would be why you have no trims.

I'm pretty sure I had my Autotune turned OFF when I first started. I shut it off after I made one adjustment years ago and it was still off when i started tuning last summer. I thought the o2 sensor was burnt out or something. I just had to turn it on.

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Sorry one last question; how exactly do I set the Autotune to run closed loop? Is that merely setting all the inputs to 13.2 as you mentioned with a 120 second run time, or is that another configuration I have to choose?

As long as you have AT turned on, it will run closed loop all the time. Mine is doing it in my vid. The trim that is generated according to the o2 sensor is added or subtracted instantaneously. However, the trim is not applied to the map. if you want to apply a trim to your fuel table permanently, you need to accept it.

Closed loop is just a temporary adjustment. It works extremely well for cruising or idling but it's way too slow for sport riding or racing which is why you have to do special tuning runs to tune properly. The tuning runs are set up so the conditions for gathering reliable trims are optimum.

...Dj won't tell you this----i truly do not know if they are even aware or if this is something peculiar to the 14---but you can't tune accurately through the cruising range because it is a fuel dump zone in the map. The o2 sensor gets buckets of fuel thrown at it and this gives a false rich signal. At least that is what I was told by Romans. I never even tried. So, just riding the bike on and off throttle through the cruising range should not yield proper trims. It does work great for fuel adjustments in closed loop but once you let up on the throttle you're dumping fuel. You must tune the cruising range in Neutral where there is no demand on the engine (similar to cruising). do road tuning separately holding the throttle steady at one TP all the way to redline then let go of the throttle....just like on a dyno. You'll get there. I'm sure this overwhelming as Fk right now. First lets get your AT running.

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You also should do the o2 sensor test. If you are at very low elevation, it probably will not be possible to read the system's test. I'm about 1200' and I can read mine.

You are supposed to remove the o2 sensor to do this. I never do but I do conduct the test after the bike has not run for at least a day or two. The air in the exhaust pipe should be the same as outside air by then.

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Well man finally got to the bottom of it, and it was a weird one!

Hit up Dynojet again and let them remote into my laptop. Turns out the throttle voltage on thebike is low and wasn't within the default range of the software. He adjusted for it and it began working.

Here's a pic of the end of the converstion; good to know if anyone has this weird issue again.

He also had me do the full open throttle and release thing you mentioned, along with some lower revs to get numbers generating.

Still learning here... but at lest now I get a break from working on the bike all nighr, something that is starting to wear thin with the wife!

Thanks man.

I see, throttle positions below x% were not getting picked up because the actual voltage was less than the minimum voltage that was input to the PC5. The PC5 was always sensing 0%. I would think you would still have gotten trims for 0% throttle at every rpm you hit unless your target AFR table is zeroed in the 0% TP column.

I think you have it solved though. Go get some ice cream with the kids and wife. Back to the bike when you can.

I'm curious to see if just riding the bike and accepting trims like Dj says gets you close to your target AFR. ...or are you going to do it the Romans way?

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He said the same about the 0% throttle thing, didn't really have an answer for that. I did as you suggested and zeroed out the idle range so the PCM can do its thing at idle. I may do the same at the 0 and 2 throttle range as well.

I can't remember where he went for it but in the software there is a sliding scale with a minimum and maximum allowance for the throttle voltage, this is where he set the calibration.

For now I am just going to accept trims u til I get more knowledgeable on the system. The wife has already forbade me to work on it this weekend lol, so we're going to enjoy a quiet weekend here at the house.

Again thanks much for your help, although we didn't nail down the issue, reading through your info helped a lot in the learning process for me!

* Last updated by: projo198 on 3/24/2017 @ 4:58 PM *

I did as you suggested and zeroed out the idle range so the PCM can do its thing at idle. I may do the same at the 0 and 2 throttle range as well.

If you don't like the AFR you are seeing it idle, you can input a target AFR in those cells and Autotune will fix that for you while you watch. I just do not think it's a good idea to accept those trims because now you have mapped your warm idle and the engine won't be warm when you start it next plus you have the ECU adjusting things around at startup AND on top of those, you also have Autotune making closed loop adjustments if Autotune is set to activate in less than two minutes. They all fight.

Go with your 13.2 AFR in the 0% column so you can see how the closed loop Autotune hones in on it. You don't need to accept the trims.

As for the 1% and 2% column, I believe Dj recommends not tuning those either but here I must differ and I'm sure all pro tuners do as well. I see no reason to not tune these TPs!!! These are the most important ones. You use these tiny TPs all the time you are cruising and they are also very important for sport riding and road racing. These TPs are also the easiest ones to learn to tune because you do not need to search for the right throttle percentage. It is easy to get the feel of 1% throttle but pretty tough to hit 40% exactly without some practice. These small TPs are also safest when first learning to tune. Maps always have the 1 and 2% columns tuned so I think you should to. If you do special tuning runs like I describe in my tutorial, you can tune those. I bet the map you have right now has values in the 1 and 2% columns. I'd keep your 13.2 target AFR in the 1 and 2% columns and those you should accept...at least if you're doing tuning runs. IDK how that "just ride the bike" tuning works.

I can't remember where he went for it but in the software there is a sliding scale with a minimum and maximum allowance for the throttle voltage, this is where he set the calibration.

That was probably step 27 HERE

Yeah there's some things to learn but once you understand how they all come together, it is not hard. Just a bit risky.

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You'll have quite a few more questions before you have this down.

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Undoubtedly! I leave town for a month shortly so that will be good time to do some research.