Look at the photo with the boot in place. That's how it should look.

ok. looking at an old pic of the pushrod, i see mine was installed with the bootyhole tight around the rod and in that groove between the two ribs. so that's how it goes back. now this is sounding like lube is a very important factor here. hehe

Lube: Any pivot, Rook, hit like a never-seize in charcoal color, or brake [I forget] that comes in copper color.

My understanding is the silvery grey Never is regular and the copper color is high temp. I have some white lith which is what I use between the outer tip and the hole in the lever so that will go on the ball end, too.

Hole He Shit, Rook, did you have all that lever there all this time and that means the pivot needed to be shaved down so there is an ever so loose rattle touching. The other way is how the OE is loaded and you could match the AMk lever with slight load, not race gap (rattle).

I've had the Pazzos on a year. I din't grind the pin down a bit. The lever is made by Pazzo and they charge 10x what the Chinese copies cost so I figured it damn well better fit right. I'll save the rant for later if this is the problem.

If there is a bit of load from the fluid pressure in the MC with the OEM lever, I imagine it is there just to eliminate said rattle. the race gap sounds like the best way to go with any lever. I'd never notice a hair of play in the lever. Rather than grind the pin, I'd be more inclined to drill the hole in the lever a bit deeper.

This lever however, this just ever so lifts the pressure plate away from the complete collapse

maybe...maybe. have to try the OEM lever to compare how it installs.

... We now look at our fork canopy over the IIIII]< pressure plate side.

Another pic of the oil filler hole is coming.

Someone buy nco a round How could that lever now give you trouble if before you put it away last year you had no issue.

Yes, thanks badnco. Actually, I DID start to notice the slippage just before storage. This started last fall/winter. Cold weather, not too bad. Now, hot weather, horrible. I can only guess why I didn't notice any slippage all last summer with the lever on. My guess is the plates had not worn or gauled enough until Fall. But that remains to be seen.

Cold, it's a hair trigger. Hot, the pack grew so this pushes into the pin. Pin is holding a raggedge lever pull and if you look at that tip, match it. So when rounding, that lowers it so the pivot is not flat into a round hole. Get it?

The pin fits into a copper bushing and it looks like there has been a LOT of wear on that bushing (pics coming). I will probably order a new bushing and drill it. Try to make it feel like the OEM lever on install--or go with a touch of race rattle.

Stock lever for a fast test.

Yep. change oil and road test with stock lever.

Salvage the aftmk so you are the field fixer like it should have been out of the box for the bike.

"should have." I'm still holding back my rant.

AFtmk was not worth the OE damage of that pin mod, so mod the lever. Stock goes back unaltered think.

Yep, always keep everything easily converted back to stock has always been rule #1.

Out to take pics and reinstall the pin. I'll show pics ASAP. You might find the wear marks interesting. I didn't want to get to far into a new discussion since we were working on the clutch plates, but seems like we have an offshoot problem to investigate before proceeding to the plates.

* Last updated by: Rook on 4/22/2014 @ 6:21 PM *

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I believe Hub has this one Rook. Good call chap.

Down here. Credit goes to badnco.

Just curious, have you change your clutch lever lately?
I had the same problem after installing after market levers. Changed back to OEM and the problem went away.

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"should have." I'm still holding back my rant.

Should have connected the dots. 'I had the same after installing aftermkts' connected the dots. This is one hole fits all. So the rant goes back to you, fix the field fix you being IT! Who said cable clutch me loose or I slip and take up all that slack of a gap.

So the field fix is you thinking out the parts you are playing with that were not designed for/or, there was just so much the copy could copy. Wink-wink, not a perfect/exact fit like someone's angledangled X to Y was copied inch for inch-Wink-wink-loophole-wink-wink. I mean, I have a machine shop, a beautiful design, a depth gauge, and an I don't know, do you?

You schooled yourself well leaving the OE alone. That design is one over the counter over and over there is no field fix for that OE. You can't place a rant there. You place a gap there. Ah, copper/heat. You know what though, whatever is close or out on the bench, or close my eyes and pick. Pick anything but install dry. Those need a lot of relubing like every oil change or a second one that comes around. While the drain is going on, yank the levers and lube with lith/cop/gear oil/grease/3-in-1 = Anything!

You like to be lubed, right?

Signed,
NOLTT (no lube? Tough Titty!)

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This is one hole fits all.

I'm biting my tongue. I've jumped to conclusions and unfoundedly badmouthed products in the past but so far, the evidence doesn't look good. One hole fits all as in, "the lever we designed for the hot selling ZX-6 will fit any Kawi sportbike.....won't it?"

EXIBIT A, Pazzo lever.
Notice these holes. The lever on the right is Pazzo. Left Chinazo. Both have a brass bushing. Bushing is meant to rotate in the handle to accommodate the arc of the lever action. Looks to all the world that that bushing hole where the pushrod seats aught to be centered when the lever is fully released, NO?

Now look here. This is NOT the Pazzo, it is the Chinazzo after installed, pulled in a few times and removed. You see bushing has rotated so the hole sits outboard (down in this pic) as far as it can go. The pushrod has worn the soft brass and it has worn into the thin black aluminum.

The Pazzo does the same thing. The pushrod tip wants to point outboard but the hole is a couple mm inboard.

....so the pushrod makes it's own hole outboard where it wants to be.

What you see in the above pic is the clutch lever I removed from my bike. Notice the bushing is rotated outboard. The half moon you see making up the right hand side of this hole is NOT the bushing. It is the aluminum lever. The rod turned the bushing so far and eventually, it just created its own seat in the aluminum part of the lever. Only problem, the seat is not DEEP enough. The clutch is always slightly disengaged, I will guess.

EXIBIT B, pushrod.
You can see pretty clearly there has been a few places the pushrod was wearing against the aluminum part of the lever. The last wear line is a groove worn all around the cicumference of the rod.

My deduction: Pazzos won't work too good on a 14. The pushrod is designed to contact the solid hole in the lever. Pazzos probably work ok on a busa which is designed to operate with a brass bushing. My busa Pazzo required the use of the OEM bushing.

OEM lever goes back on tomorrow.

You like to be lubed, right?

The pushrod definitely likes its lube. ..and the tight fit of the dust boot sfinkTEER.

* Last updated by: Rook on 4/22/2014 @ 10:03 PM *

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BULLETPROOF IS BACK!

First let me do some back peddling on the Pazzo scapegoat. There was wear on my pushrod from the Pazzo but I also had similar wear befoer installing the Pazzo as I noticed in an early picture of the pushrod. Yes, the lever was the problem but the fact of the matter is that the rotating bushing is not to blame. I cleaned up the OEM clutch lever and noticed that it too has a rotating bushing just like a Pazzo. I rotated it inboard somewhat in the pic below.

So, the rotating bushing is not a culprit.

Notice how wide Kaw made the passage to the bushing on the outboard side. That is where my Pazzo was worn into by the pushrod because the pushrod was rolling the bushing wayyyy to the outboard. That, my friends, is a major culprit. Without measuring anything and comparing OEM to Pazzo, I'd say that the Pazzo lever should have the bushing moved a mm or two outboard so that the pushrod doesn't have so much of a tendency to roll it that way. I suspect Pazzo uses the same pivot end for all (or many, at least) Kawi sportbikes because the perch/pivot pin config is the same on all models. The larger 14 however, has a larger master cylinder and so the pushrod is farther outboard than the smaller bikes.

The cause is all speculation but fact is, the Pazzo lever has a bushing that is not positioned properly. I will try changing the bushing but I doubt it will help now that the aluminum is worn away. A new bushing will just roll outboard like the old one has.

It's impossible to say if a new bushing in the Pazzo would allow the pushrod to fully extend out of the master cylinder so that the clutch would not be partially disengaged as mine appears to have been. The Pazzo seemed to work fine when new though. I'll try a new bushing and see if it feels as right as the OEM lever does.

What I mean by "right" is that the OEM lever has about 5-6 degrees of flop in the beginning of travel from full release. There is still tension so that the lever locks out but it is lighter tension that what you feel when you start to pull against the fluid pressure of the master cylinder. I've never disassembled the master but I would guess there is a small spring in there to give tension to the first 5-6 degrees of travel. This would be to allow for heat expansion and just to ensure that full time partial clutch disengagement would not happen as a result of the lever pressing in the pushrod. Just a little wiggle room for +/- error in the pushrod length. There's your race rattle, Hub. Kawi built it in and kept the smooth feel to the clutch lever.

By contrast, my Pazzo, damaged by wear, was TIGHT form the full out position. There was fluid under pressure ALL the time. The 5-6 degree spring was sqeezed the whole time. I think there was a point when the Pazzo was new that it had the loose tension at full release. I seem to recall wondering if this was normal. It is.

When I installed the OEM lever, the holes in the perch matched up quite easily to the hole in the lever. Good sign. WHen I install this Pazzo again, if I need to push the lever into the perch compressing the master cylinder, I will know that the Pazzo is going to do the same number it did last time. The solution would be to drill the hole in the bushing deeper so the Pazzo goes on easy and has the 5-6 degree soft tension at the beginning of its travel.

So I have the OEM lever back and poured a fresh jug of Rotella T6 synthetic in the crankcase. The clutch won't slip under throttle one bit. I was only able to get the engine to 2 bars for most of the ride but I had it to 3 bars in town and went right out on the expressway. I ran it to about 9.5k rpm and there was 0 slip. Also did a little wheelie and no slip. 4 th and fifth gear rollons at WOT and no slip at all. We'll see how she does in the warmer weather but for now, looks like the clutch is back to bulletproof.

Here is tonights shot of my oil filler hole. Its hard to say but looks to me like the pressure plate is extended just a hair farther than it was with the Pazzo on there. maybe.

Everything indicates that the Pazzo was putting pressure to the MC when released. To be fair, I'll need to do a test with the Pazzo with a new bushing.

* Last updated by: Rook on 4/23/2014 @ 8:30 PM *

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Good stuff Rook. I'm glad you tracked that gremlin down. I still need to go through my pack before this weekend. (Race day)

The slightly less spring force you feel is form the neutral safety switch. Take the lever off and you will see it.
I had the exact same prob you described last week. First ride with the new china levers. After reading some of this
thread, my first action was to change the lever back to the old one. I went from total slippage in any gear to a
perfectly operating clutch. It looked like the hole in the brass bushing was just not deep enough so I drilled
it a little deeper and tried again.Now the china lever is loose (no preload on the push rod) and also does not
disengage the clutch fully. Stock lever works perfectly. Hope this helps.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHmvkRoEowc

Oh Look, Moe, Bullet is like Soup Peer Man, why you go snooping and peering into that cover for? Diddledent die say you can't kill this Bricknee, you be on your knees with the bike leaned over on the wall so the new syn does not pour out what you just poured in.

One more time... Bricknee The Bulletproof is proof you'll laugh your ass off you just listen to the instructions here. Every time he discusses Bulletproof, think clutch assembly, cheating on the two levers, you'll get it... If you let it.

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Thank you OCM. That helps a lot because I really would like to keep the Pazzos on the bike. A new bushing might work but if that's too tight, I'll try drilling just a touch a time. The Pazzo and OEM bushings were drilled withe a flat tipped drill. The China levers were drilled with an ordinary pointed drill bit so they do not have a flat bottomed hole in the bushing (at tleast the ones I bought don't). You might try to get a Pazzo bushing. It probably would fit in the China lever. ..but you might still need to drill out a little, preferably using a flat tip bit or some kind of flat tipped Dremmel bit.

I had the exact same prob you described last week. First ride with the new china levers

I recall installing my China levers. You really need to push it into the perch to make the pin holes line up. That's one reason I decided to get Pazzos. It's such a popular product, I figured it would have to fit right. I can tell you, at best, it fits but I wouldn't call it "right." They didn't design the pivot specifically for a 14. That's the line between good / bad aftermarket parts: Did they design the part to the exact model of bike it's supposed to fit or did they design it to fit as many bikes as possible? The latter ends up being "almost fits" in many cases. Too bad. Pazzo has such a good name. I can't believe they wouls let a single example of their product end up in the bad aftermarket parts category.

The slightly less spring force you feel is form the neutral safety switch.

OH--that would do it, wouldn't it? never thought of that. So the small plastic switch in there was tripped the whole time I had this problem??? WHat does the Neutral safety switch do? Is that so you can start the bike in gear with the clutch pulled?

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GOOG GAWD, Hub. That poor boy needs some help! I couldn't watch more that half of that.

but if you mean leave BULLET PROOF ALONE, I'm all for that. No messing with the clutch yet.

However, Mav, if you get the opportunity to shoot some pics the next time you change clutch plates, shoot me a PM. I have a feeling Bulletproof might have suffered a few hits and she might be loosing grip sometime in the future.

STill want that EVO shift start in there sometime too.

* Last updated by: Rook on 4/24/2014 @ 8:04 AM *

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Rook, how long did you have the Pazzos on before this started happening ? I have heard this happening
With other levers, but was hoping the pazzos would not do this, but it looks like they can ?

Geez you think pazzo would at least get it right, I mean its a clutch lever, not that much
Engineering goes into it, it's not rocket science haha !

Now I'm a little paranoid as I have pazzos also, haha. Will keep an eye on it, and keep it lubed
If that helps .... Glad your back to normal now Rook !

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I have almost 15,000 miles with the Pazzos. A lot more than I guessed. Bare in mind there was a lot of highway and expressway miles in there without a lot of clutch use. I'd say I first noticed the problem 500 miles or so ago so call it 14.5k miles of Pazzos. Last season there was an odd clicking, catching feeling at the end of the travel to full release. I was glad to feel it go away after a couple weeks but perhaps that was a warning sign I should have investigated.

Don't lose all faith in Pazzo yet carabuser. I don't recall there being a single problem when I first installed. It might just be that the Pazzo bushing wore beyond the point that I should have replaced it. If I try a new one and it seems to be working fine, I'll prolly keep it on and change the bushing every ten thousand miles.

I saw the pin was wearing into the aluminum last season but to me, it seemed like that would allow the pin to travel further, not keep it pressed into the MC like it obviously was.

When I get a chance, I am going to email Pazzo.

As long as you can feel a little looseness at the beginning of the travel (as in the neutral switch discussion a few posts above), I wouldn't worry about the pin not having enough travel. Just keep in mind the sides of the hole in the soft bushing is stretching a little each time you pull the clutch lever. You will need to replace it someday or it will roll right to the side and your pushrod will then be pressing against the path in the aluminum that it wore (which is obviously not far enough--I guess?).

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Ok, thanks Rook, will keep it lubed, and keep all you said in mind, let us know what Pazzo tells you

They seem to be pretty good people.....

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I have over 20 plates that have been roasted beyond service limit. They may be BULLETPROOF but they aren't MAVERICK proof. The ONLY way to extract every last ounce of power and ET from this bike is to beat the living hell out of the clutch.

Yes, That's what I always tell owners who complain there is not enough low end power.. My god, if you really need to take off that fast, slip the clutch and you have more power than you know what to do with from idle to 5k.

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Yes, That's what I always tell owners who complain there is not enough low end power.. My god, if you really need to take off that fast, slip the clutch and you have more power than you know what to do with from idle to 5k. PERIOD

Fixed it for ya!

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I hear ya. I know I can't keep my front on the ground if I do that semi-agressively.

Here's the thing. When people get this bike and ride it below 3000 rpm, they expect it to still yank their arms off. I still can pull almost any car riding like that if I just give it a little gas. Now 3500 and up, that's where it will scare the crap out of ya if you're looking for some real excitement. If you're sport riding, you're not going to be running under 3500. If you are, it is when you are taking a very tight corner where you're better off without all the power anyway.

Looks like this thread has gone a bit . My apologies to the OP. It was a clutch problem I had but not a SYnthetic oil problem at all. Just a lever problem. GO AHEAD AND USE SYNTHETIC! I even stored with it and seems like the clutch is working fine. As mentioned earlier, maybe I will use Kawi 10W 40 conventional to store just for peace of mind but my regular oil will remain Rotella synthetic.

I'll have to post a new topic linking to this thread after I get the Pazzo situation totally figured out.

* Last updated by: Rook on 4/24/2014 @ 8:05 PM *

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try stock setup again..see what she does..stock..bleed(if necessary)...just see.those stock levers actually are quite befitting the 14;)This doesn't sound like 'full syn'oiling issues

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 4/25/2014 @ 12:25 AM *

I got maybe two miles with some aftermarket ebay levers, let the bike cool switched back to stock and no more slipping and never looked back.

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try stock setup again..see what she does.

That's what worked for me, Grn. No bleed necessary. Just the Pazzo bushing was worn out.

I got maybe two miles with some aftermarket ebay levers, let the bike cool switched back to stock and no more slipping and never looked back.

i have a set of Chinese copies, too. Never ran them on the bike but I installed them. They seemed to fit too tight against the pushrod once you got the pivot pin through the perch and the lever. I think they would work if the hole in the bushing was drilled a little bit deeper.

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Rook I have Chinese copies mine were drilled before installation.Northern Kaw showed me

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Cool. You're the go-to guy for lever bushing modification. Did you simply set the lever on a drill press and line the bit up to the hole? Looks like that would work with Pazzo or Chinese levers. Nice e flat bottom surface to set on a drill press platform.

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I will try installing the original levers and see what the outcome is. I just installed the levers a month or so ago.

I'm pretty sure I felt the clicking almost immediately. It took a while before I noticed the clutch slip. It was about 8000 rpm first and second gear. I don't ride the bike that hard every day.

What I believe was happening was that the bushing was rolling too far when I pulled the lever. It should not be able to roll farther than the hole being straight in line with the push rod but I believe mine dis roll past that position. Once the hole and the pin cross paths, the bushing snaps forward and the pin is now trapped pointed slightly forward it's pressed into the master cylinder a tiny bit. Still works most of the time but the clutch always has a little less pressure on it than it's supposed to have. When I removed my Pazzo, I found the bushing rolled forward and frozen in place by dirt -probably aluminum dust. The pin had worn into the aluminum and it also had a slight groove worn in it.

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