"Safety Mode..." I think it is ridiculous that we live in a world that tries to "Nanny" us and treat us as if we were children. I you can't ride your bike and hurt yourself then guess what? A.) Learn from it and become a better rider or B.) Be afraid and quit riding. I get so frustrated when these companies try to "big brother" us. PLEASE allow natural selection to work the way it was intended and stop intervening in my affairs. Ok I think I'm done venting for now.... You picked up on the "Extremely Ok" as well huh Hub? That's an interesting "tell" and I'm certain it would lose a poker game or two. I think the fact is that all that needs to be done is remove the "explicitive deleted" safety maps and leave everything else alone. I manually deleted one of the intervention's weapons, but I cannot get to the others without Woolich software. I feel burned and cheated. I don't have hard proof to validate these feelings, but I won't stop digging until I do.

Maverick my bud, I'll flash your ecu and if you ain't 100% satisfied in every way I will refund your money and return it to its preset condition. I will guarantee no error codes and no problems of any sort derived from the flash. If you ride her and track her and are not completely satisfied, I will do whatever is necessary to make it right. But I have not yet had any complaints. I am just makin this offer openly to ya because I hear your frustration. I stand behind what I have here. Anything I can do to help in any way bud, just lemme know. You will be faster with my flash. Period. If you are not, and if you are not flipping stoked, I will eat my shirt!

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I really appreciate that C and I don't see anyone else making those guarantees. If Don has one then I need to be calling him up PRONTO!

I almost hate to open this can of worms but have you tried having Jeffo reflash your ECU?

http://www.faic.cc/efitestimonials.html

* Last updated by: Kruz on 1/25/2014 @ 7:51 AM *

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Kruz, I don't know if Jeffo is a flasher? He can guide you thru the TPS and set the accel utility, you think you have a map. A lot of those comments bring up the accel and TPS, so they [the customer] have not used the two correctly or not at all. I think the accel utility was part of the problem for most of those pwcomd maps.

Where are the negative posts so we have a refined decision to make? I don't see the 'foul iridiums' posts or the 'lost confidence vote at a second chance' post like your complaint, Kruz. You can't flash over the phone is one. This would go back to mailing the ECU back and forth, the bike Don's Out... LOL.

Now, Don is on the red carpet and he has a problem. I think the customer is right? No better ET if not lost power after a flash? So, we are back to weeding out flashers along with TPS/utility clickers? The Brock/Don/Ivan pool drink from the same steam [of data]?

Let me mail out $400 to detune my bike... Elvis has left the building... Thank you for coming... Elvis has left the building...

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Exactly hub. That's WOT I'm sayin. The actual flash has to take everything into account to actually provide improvement. The person designing the flash not only has to understand effective combustion and tuning techniques, but an understanding of how the bike manages all of it's electronic subsystems to work in concert. That way, once flashed, the bike actually performs better at all throttle positions, at all throttle transitions, everywhere. The maximum potential of the machine with all of the safety systems out of the way was the goal. Maximum potential. For us, this is not an abstract concept, it is a mathematical certainty. Once achieved the result is awesome.

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The Brock/Don/Ivan pool drink from the same steam [of data]?

I am not in the same pool any longer, I have my own custom equipment and have re-done my flash for this bike.
I have fixed all the previous problems and shortcomings....

I don't like being associated with anyone else's work other than my own.

www.ivansperformanceproducts.com/12zx14.htm

Ivan

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I am not in the same pool any longer, I have my own custom equipment and have re-done my flash for this bike.
I have fixed all the previous problems and shortcomings....

What software are you using for your 'custom set-up'? Wooly or Unleashed?

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I'll never tell but it's neither... I have full access to every single bit inside.

All built custom to my needs....

I'm not here to share any info.
I just wanted to make sure that people know that I am not associated with another business.

Ivan

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Ivan,

I don't expect you to share. That is one fine business ethic. I'm not in business however. I'm just bouncing off my interest in the black box.

WATT I enjoyed was chasing the reversengineering on the outside flip-flops. Without your inputre thing, something would not have chipped off a flash that happened in my abstract... headache you gave me. WOT are the odds how it all came down to all those steps C made comment about.

How funny it was putting the square in the round hole. Now it's time to play inside with those bits. You say the word 'bit' and it has a new meaning to me. If say I think I get the gist of the outside of the hack? I'm now inside this puppy and like C expressed, I'm steps behind you bring out the bits upon bits... LOL

I knowattchew....

Thanks, Ivan.

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I'll never tell but it's neither... I have full access to every single bit inside.
All built custom to my needs....

Yeah, I have used that ecu unleashed software suite package. The software functionality isn't there. Not enough ability to extrapolate numbers across the rpm range. I prefer the Woolich!

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Here's the thing with the flash, does the person doing the flash know what every number in that ECU does, means, how it works in unison or not in unison throughout the whole throttle range at every increment at every possible point ?

I have talked to C at length, and I can tell you from my layman ears, HE DOES !!! I don't think the "other" guys do, I have talked to the "other" guys, and they don't have the knowledge that C has, I am not here to put the others guys down, they are very good at what they do, but I did not get a money back guarantee from the one I used to flash, I would have gone with C if I knew about it at the time, but I didn't .....

Why not use this motor to the best of its abilities ? I'm going with C's flash as soon as funds allow (that's another story LOL ).

Just my honest opinion .....

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Thank you so much for the vote of confidence Cara! Thank you! I offer that guarantee to every single one of my customers. I will help ya with anything ya need anytime sir!

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For us, this is not an abstract concept, it is a mathematical certainty.

I think with mathematical certainty the concept to the abstract is to say that: Ohm is the Father of the Truth Tables.

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-'Ohm is the Father of the Truth Tables'

This should be immortalized in stone!

* Last updated by: Cblast on 1/25/2014 @ 11:21 AM *

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I am not in the same pool any longer, I have my own custom equipment and have re-done my flash for this bike.
I have fixed all the previous problems and shortcomings....
I don't like being associated with anyone else's work other than my own. I'll never tell but it's neither... I have full access to every single bit inside.
All built custom to my needs....
I'm not here to share any info.
I just wanted to make sure that people know that I am not associated with another business.

Ivan

Now we're cooking with Gas. Ivan what took so long ?

Someone briefly explain to me a couple things.

1. Are these flashes that have the fuel mapping included in the flash able to calculate AFR no matter what pipe you have? So if I start with slips and I like my flash and then go with a full system it will change the map or i'm still running the same map as everyone else? Maybe let me ask it a different way. Does the logic of the flash say ok computer make the bike hit 13.1 AFR or does it say add x amount of fuel like the PCV? Seems like a real risk of running lean correct?

2. Do any of the flashes remove or remap safety mode? Thats two accounts I have read saying the guhl flash does not.

3. Is there a stock AFR sensor in the stock exhaust, and do you reinstall that with your aftermarket pipe or disconnect? Seems obvious you would need one but not everything is as obvious as I think it is.

* Last updated by: darkarcher on 1/25/2014 @ 12:57 PM *

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I almost hate to open this can of worms but have you tried having Jeffo reflash your ECU?

Kruz, now that was a good one,,,, this thread will get hot fast ???? ok who's up first. I pick Hub. Step right up, get flashed over the phone. Comes with 24 free spark plugs lol Sorry boys had to as this was a huge thread way back. To funny. Cheers

Well I don't drag race but I ride my bike on the street, almost 10k miles since I bought the bike in April 2012. I recently(October 2013)got the Ivan's flash and Map for my bike and the bike runs great. Super smooth power delivery and low end power gains are very noticeable with those flys opening earlier. No more decal pop EVER. Ivan I will be pulling my ECU to send back to you for your recent updates.

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Q. Are these flashes that have the fuel mapping included in the flash able to calculate AFR no matter what pipe you have?

A. Briefly, we are fine if we do not lift. We lift, that makes the cams overlap, pull a fresh charge out as the intake is open, yes, you have a slight loss of that charge leaving, because the pipe is more open. So to compensate for this, you add a pig to clean up the loss.

So if I start with slips and I like my flash and then go with a full system it will change the map or i'm still running the same map as everyone else?

A. You might say, I have a stock map and when I change to slips, I changed something, so each time I make a change, I have to change the map to match the AFR [wink-wink = hp] or air flow ratio think [overlap speed changes].

Maybe let me ask it a different way. Does the logic of the flash say ok computer make the bike hit 13.1 AFR...

Yes... Under load. During cruise, no. More like 15 AFR. Mine with PAIR still in play, no flash, no pig, no pipe, stock AFR reads at 16.1 cruising. In a few days I'll know what the AFR is with the PAIR closed off.

Q....or does it say add x amount of fuel like the PCV?

No and Yes. We are in open loop so if we are preset to run 13.1, that is our target forever. Load wise, this says to run rich so fuel comes in and we are well into the rich/cool area so no lean happens. So yes, when x meets y, there is an x amount calculated richer when the vacuum load at the IAP [intake air pressure] demands it. Whereas, the pig5 will be programmed to run the best tabled number in that cell, i.e., the learn process.

Do any of the flashes remove or remap safety mode? Thats two accounts I have read saying the guhl flash does not.

This one I'll take as guess at and assume, or until Don or Brock show up to say different. My understanding is to loophole the intervention, you layer the FULL map over the safe map. This way, the cells have the same exact FULL cell to meet and greet at that x to y intersect and when intervened, the first entry is the layered number, or the FULL number that was flashed over the safe map. So, either Smoke or Romes will say ye or nay as to cutting and pasting over the safe cells. Sounds like Mav gets his way as to leaving the whole bike alone without hurting 1/4 and foot times 'entering the intervening goings on.'

Q. Is there a stock AFR sensor in the stock exhaust, and do you reinstall that with your aftermarket pipe or disconnect? Seems obvious you would need one but not everything is as obvious as I think it is.

AFR is an air to liquid detecting device. This is only found in a closed loop system where the plan is to run at a specific number all the time. If you had a euro compliant 14, you'd run with an 02 and be locked into a 14.7: ratio all the time. If you tuned the pig to run 13:1, the 02 would close that ratio down and install the preset of 14.7 out the pipe. So for us to see what the numbers do in the map, we use the air to liquid finder and adjust to our cruise range, highest safe lean running, or all power with all the torque possible in the 12:1 ratio or a touch leaner toward 12.3 say for argument sake.

So think flash more as a stock ECU that has its parameters reset in a FULL locked capacity. We still need the pig to increase grunt at the bottom with the accel mode. We can bring more AFR, or dial in a cleaner math calc with the pig in pc5 mode. We can adjust the fuel map when a pipe or a/c is change. We can run without the a/cleaner installed and adjust the AFR. We can set more maps on the fly. We can turn the pig off and be out of the loop at all.

If you are going to give the bike a tune, a flash is half the tuneup. Yes, you can go flash alone and be done no matter the pipe. But to take advantage of the flash, the pig map will compliment the whole tuning package. Same as if you bought slips and found it a bit more peppy without doing anything else. But, add the pc? Someone is going to make more hp with that pig being added.

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Someone briefly explain to me a couple things.

1. Are these flashes that have the fuel mapping included in the flash able to calculate AFR no matter what pipe you have?
Absolutely not

So if I start with slips and I like my flash and then go with a full system it will change the map or i'm still running the same map as everyone else?
It might, depending on what the exhaust gas was measured with.

Maybe let me ask it a different way. Does the logic of the flash say ok computer make the bike hit 13.1 AFR or does it say add x amount of fuel like the PCV? Seems like a real risk of running lean correct?
This ECU does not have the capability to adjust for any mods.

2. Do any of the flashes remove or remap safety mode?
Thats two accounts I have read saying the guhl flash does not.
Mine does

3. Is there a stock AFR sensor in the stock exhaust, and do you reinstall that with your aftermarket pipe or disconnect?
Not on USA models

Seems obvious you would need one but not everything is as obvious as I think it is.

Ivan

* Last updated by: Ivan on 1/25/2014 @ 6:04 PM *

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Hub wrote:

Now, Don is on the red carpet and he has a problem. I think the customer is right? No better ET if not lost power after a flash? So, we are back to weeding out flashers along with TPS/utility clickers?

Absolutely, sometimes I wish I owned a Weed Wacker....lol! We had the equivalent of a Flash War going on over at ZX-10R.net when the Gen 4 ZX-10R first came out, Dynotronics, ECU Unleashed, Guhl etc., all wanting you to drink their particular brand of KoolAid. Who are these guys, where did they come from and what is their tuning experience, credentials etc.? Anyway, after following all the B.S. for awhile I opted out and left my ECU alone on the 10R. Just because a guy has the ability to crack an ECU doesn't necessarily mean he knows what the hell he's doing once he's in there and I for one won't play Guinea Pig again.

Kruz, I don't know if Jeffo is a flasher? He can guide you thru the TPS and set the accel utility, you think you have a map. A lot of those comments bring up the accel and TPS, so they [the customer] have not used the two correctly or not at all. I think the accel utility was part of the problem for most of those pwcomd maps.
I don't see the 'foul iridiums' posts or the 'lost confidence vote at a second chance' post like your complaint, Kruz. You can't flash over the phone is one. This would go back to mailing the ECU back and forth, the bike Don's Out... LOL.

Hub, as far as Jeffo goes, I don't think he has the ability to crack an ECU over the phone yet but he might be working on it.

Where are the negative posts so we have a refined decision to make?

Hub, that was the testimonial page, he's not going to put any of the negative comments on there....lol!

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Kruz, now that was a good one,,,, this thread will get hot fast ???? ok who's up first. I pick Hub. Step right up, get flashed over the phone. Comes with 24 free spark plugs lol Sorry boys had to as this was a huge thread way back. To funny. Cheers

Hehe, yep that was one of the greatest threads of all time, something for everyone in there....

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Do any of the flashes remove or remap safety mode? Thats two accounts I have read saying the guhl flash does not.

I can tell you 100% for sure that account is inaccurate.

So, either Smoke or Romes will say ye or nay as to cutting and pasting over the safe cells.

Think of it this way. Windows versus Mac. Just different way of looking at the job to be done. Results can be achieved many ways once you learn the software. And as we all know the software is ever changing.

ECU editing started with Guhl Flashing For Brock and Ivan. Two great guys two work with wouldn't you say ? From hear Don created his own Flash with the back ground of their knowledge added to his own. 3 heads better than one ?

Remember the order

Brock First

Ivan Flash Second

Brock Flash 2, soon after Ivan input,,,hmmmmm

Don Guhl Full Fuel Dual E-85

To date Guhl has flashed more ECU's than all others combined. Still is the only one to offer Dual Flash for High and Low E-85 power modes. Internet has a way of clouding what he has achieved.

With out saying to much, If Don has flashed your ECU your in good hands. Promise.

Ivan now producing a full fueled ECU Flash will be a pleasant addition in the progression of our sport. Cheers.

If you are going to give the bike a tune, a flash is half the tuneup. Yes, you can go flash alone and be done no matter the pipe. But to take advantage of the flash, the pig map will compliment the whole tuning package. Same as if you bought slips and found it a bit more peppy without doing anything else. But, add the pc? Someone is going to make more hp with that pig being added.

2ND if your that guy that must have have it perfect tweeking will be a must

We had the equivalent of a Flash War going on over at ZX-10R.net... Anyway, after following all the B.S. for awhile I opted out and left my ECU alone on the 10R... once he's in there and I for one won't play Guinea Pig again.

If Mav and I had the same years, I'd burn it back stock for free, but we have diff model upgrades and that changes the box [ABS] right there. That's as far as I'm going to play it by the numbers.

I wanted to see more moves within the ECU. I paid for that looksea inside. So in a way, I'm paying a tuition for tuning. The flashers use all sorts of keyboard software, follow the AFR line and adjust from there. I'm more looking at this software vs. octal vs. Bi and see if I can get there another way than the cut&pastears.

Hub, that was the testimonial page, he's not going to put any of the negative comments on there....lol!

That was just to make you giggle.

Kruz, now that was a good one,,,, this thread will get hot fast ???? ok who's up first. I pick Hub. Step right up, get flashed over the phone. Comes with 24 free spark plugs lol Sorry boys had to as this was a huge thread way back. To funny. Cheers

Hehae, yep that was one of the greatest threads of all time, something for everyone in there....

You two are the instigators of this going someplace. Keep me out of it. I'm just like the rest of you: wrapping this around my head trying to figure out a flash from the guy with his socks up, pointed shoes, the coat is unbuttoned, and his arms are hiding in the coat pockets, hat hiding his face as he looks down and is about to show his Proud to someone.

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