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Thread: Metal shavings in oil :(

Created on: 05/25/15 12:49 PM

Replies: 19

ninjadam



Joined: 05/25/15

Posts: 4

Metal shavings in oil :(
05/25/15 12:49 PM

i did an oil change and installed a Factory Pro Tuning Evo shift kit (works and feels great)

but anyway the oil had to be drained to install it so i waited for my service interval to do it and in the bottom of the oil pan afterwards there were quite a bit of metal shavings. they are non magnetic.

something inside is failing and im thinking its a main bearing.

any idea of best who makes the best replacement ones and gasket kit?

any help would be greatly appreciated.

here are a few of them on my finger

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hagrid


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Location: pittsburgh

Joined: 02/16/12

Posts: 2210

RE: Metal shavings in oil :(
05/25/15 3:00 PM

Need a better snap.

Are they clutch linings? You're awful quick to pin this on the main/big end bearings.



Yoshis!! GO NINJEE!!!

Fat chicks at Wal-Mart: NOT RECOMMENDED

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ninjadam



Joined: 05/25/15

Posts: 4

RE: Metal shavings in oil :(
05/25/15 3:05 PM

based on older threads i have looked up.
Since they are non-magnetic (somewhat copper in color)
I just had my clutch out while the oil was draining and everything there was perfect.
Tomorrow ill be doing a valve check and if everything there looks good too then Ill be splitting the cases wednesday.

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ninjadam



Joined: 05/25/15

Posts: 4

RE: Metal shavings in oil :(
05/25/15 3:10 PM

Updated this comment because of a weird error when i try to make a new one.

2007 year model
35k miles, used as a commuter to and form work. i purchased it at 24k miles so im unsure of how it was treated for that time but the seller said "the valves have been adjusted already"

I did a valve adjustment last night (every single valve was tight) runs noticeably better.

When i took the cams off i found out what all the debris was from. I have a manual cam chain tensioner and about a week ago i rode with it too tight for a day because the valves didn't tap with it like that not super tight but i didn't back it out a hair after going in until the chain stopped slapping.
I only guessing but...im guessing that is why my cam chain guides are heavily worn (those black specs)
and my cams and journals are scored (the metal shavings) and some light abnormal wear on the cam chain.

as far as why they look copper to me it could be the oil on them (royal purple) or the crummy yellow lights in my shop or a combination.
also my finger was the only way i could get my cell phone to focus properly hahaha.


* Last updated by: ninjadam on 5/27/2015 @ 7:51 PM *

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Rook


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Joined: 03/28/09

Posts: 20589

RE: Metal shavings in oil :(
05/25/15 10:02 PM

Looks sorta coppery. Are you sure this is not just an oil coating? Probably not, it does not look like there is oil running down your finger. If it were me, I'd wait and just keep an eye / ear on it. That might have been there from break in and it's not happening anymore.



'08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE Now Deceased

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Hub


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Joined: 02/05/09

Posts: 13715

RE: Metal shavings in oil :(
05/25/15 11:02 PM

Thanks for the enlargement, Rook. I'm going take that, stick it up my analizer, everyone has one so out it pops and oh look the guessing list:

1. All I can do is take my whack attack at it and since you have yet to mentioned mileage or year, who gives a sump pan. This is enough of a look and one key mention of the OP was; not magnetic.

2. Copper yeah, but who knows how you put that all together? No mention if the bike was used/raced/etc., and the history before you if used? I've never seen copper smear like shit on a finger, so is that copper anti-seize off the spark plug threads?

3. The blackshit is not magnetic could be carbon? Kind of banged off some carbon as in knock or pre-ign? Shot it past the rings? Cut thru it with a razor if you still have it.

4. Look to the far right and see what looks like molten fling balls? Say the gas blows out, too close to the torch, you add that instant oxy that blows sparks? Molten balls goes lean in one stroke of thousands of times? Might the flash or garage light show it copper looking and the smear of copper looks like anti-seize on the plug threads and at one time [obviously the first shot] out the cannon, if not the second hit was stuck at the plug? It has to get molten/melting/exploding/balls as you see there... is a guess of carbon/molten top end area-wink-wink/kinetic/something?

5. But not enough to cause the bottom to take a hit? It's one cylinder usually with something I'm coming up with, not a lean or fuel change, where all would melt or say 2 are taken, 1 is fine, the other is wrapped around the crank. So where is the top layer of the insert is the aluminum layer? I see ball/carbon. I do not see more galling if any aluminum at all.

6. Bottom line is speak a lot of EVIL, SEE no evil, HEAR any funny noises? You said in so many words: Here is a wiped finger from the sump pan. That's my last year's evidence. I installed some foot shit kicker and am beating bike and nada sound from it since new; as is the same day to day of beat my baby... Oh wait, I was talking about my bike. So, does the bike sound like new? No noticeable knock?

7. Save the old filter and cut it open next time. No need to drop the sump. That's my monitor and ears is keep listening/feeling the engine and inspect the internals by ripping the filter open and look between the pleats. Hate to see that bike broken down for nothing, if that's all that is there and I'm taking a guess from here. So cut the filter open before splitting the cases on bulletproof.



Tormenting the motorcycling community one post at a time

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alg8er


alg8er's Gravatar

Joined: 02/10/09

Posts: 1217

RE: Metal shavings in oil :(
05/26/15 3:20 AM

I'm gonna have nightmares about molten fling balls!



Before your criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you do criticize them, you're a mile away and have their shoes.

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Grn14


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Location: Montana

Joined: 02/25/09

Posts: 15511

RE: Metal shavings in oil :(
05/26/15 8:51 AM

No mention of mileage...excellent Hub...I thought the same thing.This looks almost exactly like a brand new motor getting it's first oil change.I've had those blackish balls in my oil before...the do go away.Unless something is happening as Hub said.No metallic?Well,what's non-metallic that could be there?Some of that looks like red threadlocker,factory that is(or maybe you put some on the shift star bolts[that kit IS a shift star,yes]?).You checked the clutch plates...okay...but small slivers and such can still break free and not be a problem.Now..if those pieces were metallic...then I'd be concerned.If it isn't a new motor.I'm with Hub on this...leave the cases alone.


* Last updated by: Grn14 on 5/26/2015 @ 8:52 AM *

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jtemple


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Joined: 07/07/12

Posts: 470

RE: Metal shavings in oil :(
05/27/15 8:56 AM

I'm gonna have nightmares about molten fling balls!

...and sticking my finger up my analyzer.

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Jetfixr320



Location: Indianapolis

Joined: 08/09/14

Posts: 124

RE: Metal shavings in oil :(
05/28/15 9:35 AM

He updated his post here.

RE: Metal shavings in oil :(
05/25/15 3:10 PM
Updated this comment because of a weird error when i try to make a new one.
2007 year model
35k miles, used as a commuter to and form work. i purchased it at 24k miles so im unsure of how it was treated for that time but the seller said "the valves have been adjusted already"
I did a valve adjustment last night (every single valve was tight) runs noticeably better.
When i took the cams off i found out what all the debris was from. I have a manual cam chain tensioner and about a week ago i rode with it too tight for a day because the valves didn't tap with it like that not super tight but i didn't back it out a hair after going in until the chain stopped slapping.
I only guessing but...im guessing that is why my cam chain guides are heavily worn (those black specs)
and my cams and journals are scored (the metal shavings) and some light abnormal wear on the cam chain.
as far as why they look copper to me it could be the oil on them (royal purple) or the crummy yellow lights in my shop or a combination.
also my finger was the only way i could get my cell phone to focus properly hahaha.

* Last updated by: ninjadam on 5/27/2015 @ 7:51 PM

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Hub


Hub's Gravatar

Joined: 02/05/09

Posts: 13715

RE: Metal shavings in oil :(
05/28/15 10:31 AM

That sure does not look like the tensioner is coming apart. Maybe a few chunks off it as you caught it? But is this before or after? Well, I better go see a proctologist, that one eye is not seeing well, I better go see a proctologist, that one eye is...



Tormenting the motorcycling community one post at a time

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Rook


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Joined: 03/28/09

Posts: 20589

RE: Metal shavings in oil :(
05/28/15 5:46 PM

Only you know how tight you set the CCT but I don't think a little on the tight side would cause damage. Maybe it was just ware from hard use or too tight of clearances.

I noticed that my cam caps were scored long before my manual CFT was installed. The camshafts both looked fine except for some very slight wear on the lobes.



'08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE Now Deceased

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Grn14


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Location: Montana

Joined: 02/25/09

Posts: 15511

RE: Metal shavings in oil :(
05/28/15 6:31 PM

"That sure does not look like the tensioner is coming apart"...LOL...that tensioner aint gonna come apart before the shoe takes a dive.You FUNNY.What kind of tension in there would cause the situation he's described about shavings and scored cams and journals?If that cam chain tensioner is "SLIGHTLY" tighter(he said he didn't back it out a wee bit after the noise went away)...that wouldn't harm anything."NOISE going away can occur with one of those at a particular number of turns...it's not calculated as to how many.The instructions say..."till the noise goes away".He did that...and stopped.That aint gonna hurt anything.Something else is going on here.You mean to tell me that a SLIGHTLY firmer adjustment to that shoe...and chain is gonna cause THIS type of issue?I don't THINK so. Even if that tensioner was a BIT more tight...the shoe would wear...not the cams or anything.?????Teflon or fiber is gonna be stronger than the Cam parts?And just HOW is that contaminated oil gonna get fed into the cams and all...to allow scoring?

I think this has more to do with tight valves than a tensioner foot.


* Last updated by: Grn14 on 5/28/2015 @ 6:47 PM *

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Rook


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Joined: 03/28/09

Posts: 20589

RE: Metal shavings in oil :(
03/19/17 6:34 PM

I thought this would be a good place to post this.

Grooves are worn by clutch springs inside of the clutch spring wells in the clutch spring plate. Centrifugal force throws each spring against the inside of its well and the spring rubs against the well when the clutch is disengaged. This is probably why you might find non magnetic silver particles in your drained motor oil. The particles wash to the oil pan where they are caught by the oil pick up screen or the oil filter. No harm as long as the oil pick up screen is cleaned occasionally.

Brock’s clutch springs have spacers that are designed to keep the springs centered in the wells to prevent wear.

Yes? No? Maybe?



'08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE Now Deceased

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WillsZX14R


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Location: CT

Joined: 04/14/16

Posts: 508

RE: Metal shavings in oil :(
03/21/17 11:50 AM

that's the debris I saw when breaking in the bike and had to do the first oil change

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Rook


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Joined: 03/28/09

Posts: 20589

RE: Metal shavings in oil :(
03/22/17 4:51 AM

More than likely. I've seen it every oil change.



'08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE Now Deceased

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hagrid


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Location: pittsburgh

Joined: 02/16/12

Posts: 2210

RE: Metal shavings in oil :(
03/24/17 6:28 PM

I wonder if HUb got the fling balls cleared from his analyzer.



Yoshis!! GO NINJEE!!!

Fat chicks at Wal-Mart: NOT RECOMMENDED

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Hub


Hub's Gravatar

Joined: 02/05/09

Posts: 13715

RE: Metal shavings in oil :(
03/24/17 7:02 PM

Nope... still stuck between anal and eyezer.



Tormenting the motorcycling community one post at a time

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ninjadam



Joined: 05/25/15

Posts: 4

RE: Metal shavings in oil :(
03/24/17 8:43 PM

Well to give a long overdue update...

I have 57k miles on the bike now.

I replaced the cam chain guides not long after making this post (because they are cheap and i was taking the motor apart to check them) The old ones looked worn but nothing really "wrong" with them.

i still don't know what caused the shavings but i found very large ones in my oil sump screen and replaced some parts of my oil pump because it was looking a little pitted.

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Rook


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Joined: 03/28/09

Posts: 20589

RE: Metal shavings in oil :(
03/25/17 9:16 AM

Thanks. adam. I should remove my oil pan soon and have a look. 49k miles here.



'08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE Now Deceased

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