Think about it. Jeffo does not go lean 3 years down the road or whenever you had that installed. Lean is that day not thousands of miles later. Map is across the board lean so more lean and you should have cooked piston skirts, not a valve letting go [assumed]. Maps do not tag valves to pistons [assumed]. A failed keeper popping out or a tight/loose valve on the valvetrain is not map related. Should I keep going?

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So as a last question before I leave you guys in peace and get this engine change done.

What map should I use on my PCIII with the 09 engine and 07 throttle bodies with flies removes, 07 ECU and Yoshimura R77 slip ons?

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I have not worked on my ZX-14 too much to this point. However, my prior bike I had to remove the engine, replaced a shift fork and all the trans gears, then of course reinstall the engine. The entire engine had to be "split"..it had a main upper and main lower section to do this). I was smart though, I pulled all the carbs (this one was a V4, carb'd) as a unit instead of disassembling all the linkage. WHen I got it back together, it ran like a raping ape, didn't have to get the carbs re-synced or anything.

I would think the swap would be mostly time consuming if anything. According to the others, it should basically be a sraight swap. The other major difficulty is probably handling the engine. Pulling the engine should be fairly straight forward, not too difficult from a technical standpoint, mostly the logistics of handling the engine itself. Installing the new engine should basically be a reverse of the removal process. It won't be easy for sure, there's no doubt about that. But I would say doable in a weekend, or a few nights work. Not sure if the electronics could be an issue, or what adjustments might need made getting the bike running afterwards.

The only reason I am thinking "Map" is because I previously removed the flies and when this is done I understand it makes the engine run lean so a PC and Map is a must. I thought I was on the right track with the Jeffo.
Apparently not.
I know the most desirable way is a custom tune/ custom map but I really am trying to save a dollar or two after the 09 engine purchase and install costs.
I know many have said I should do the change myself but I'd rather get experience folk do the job rather than second guess myself.
I have decided i will be using the 09 engine with 07 throttle bodied with flies removed and the 07 ECU.
So the last piece of the puzzle is changing the Jeffo map to something that everyone thinks is descent.
Hub, you gave map options ranging from lean to rich and matching performance details.
The bike has more than enough power for me.
I want the map that is best for the engine and keeping it happy as I am pretty gun shy after what has just happened.

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The only reason I am thinking "Map" is because I previously removed the flies and when this is done I understand it makes the engine run lean so a PC and Map is a must.

I've heard of people running a long time on the stock map with flies removed. I imagine the 06-07 were pretty lean up to 6k rpm with flies out on a stock map but never heard of anything bad hapenning. I still think it's best to have the bike mapped for mods. Now if you are thinking the engine died from the map, I would expect there to have been a melted piston or burned valves long ago.

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Yanni, I am a zero fly, zero air cleaner, zero map kind of, not a carb'd bike anymore. I was hearing knocks on low rpm loads, but that was my fault running that low with that a high compression'd bike. In other words, there is vacuum at the intake sensor and it now knows how much to send. It was not like a carb where vacuum out the jet hole was in conflict with the speeding air getting in sooner.

I take off slow, there is no need to retune the bike because the subs are gone. I whack the throttle open, I sill have the electronics at the speed of light calc'ing off the fuel trim. Same as now. I do not have the flies in play, nor a pig (at the time) and that's now 3 14's without using a pig with flies out.

I'm mr. stocker so you are better off running any pipe and keeping the stock map. Bike runs a 14 with or without flies. Bike accels to 13 on the WOT. Show me where I need a map to compensate for the electronics moving richer on accel?

Child's play... When only your AFR meter knows for sure. You forgot about vacuum on lift as vacuum on WOT. The NASCAR boys crying about FI and now there are no complaints. And I bet no one wants to go back to carbs... Ask them.

* Last updated by: Hub on 7/25/2014 @ 6:37 PM *

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I know the most desirable way is a custom tune/ custom map but I really am trying to save a dollar or two after the 09 engine purchase and install costs.

You could go back to the engineers (KHI) configuration and increase your chances for longevity.

It's not the popular choice around here with the "flashers" but something you might consider.

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AFR is following a load. Factory load is when you accel, that is low vacuum upon the intake sensor. Our base number at cruise is 14a. When we accel, the needle swings rich and that runs the tank down to 13a or close to 12a. Now we tune the bike to 13a. Our accel now empties the tank at 11a on accel. So look at the proportion swing out the tank.

Stock = Best mileage and 'lean is mean' as the saying goes.
12-13a = Smooth, a slight robust power gain.

Again, it's how much warming over you warm over the bike. Warming over is more velocity stack changes, a less restrictive pipe, no air cleaner, flash, pc, turbo, port, 5-valve angle cuts, this is warming up the bike. But to install mufflers over again [slips] and think the subs removed is a heavy warming factor, it's hold on to your subs.

Ivan comes out with a sub speeder upper. It causes the 6 to lock in the gear position. This is a code that says, a signal is out of range, let me go whip up the subs faster so I wink-wink, limp the system but oh look, the subs move faster I think I missed that when....

... Are we on the same page yet?

I'm just the messenger of the Penultimate Number.

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Are we on the same page yet?

I just saw a limp go buy (reacharound) in the theory walk.

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To be honest, before I had the engine issue I loved the feel and response my bike had. My brother has a 2012 ZX-14r and after riding that I prefer mine everyday of the week (just wish mine had the electronics).
If possible I'd like to leave all as it was to hopefully keep the same feel. That also includes the Jeffo map if possible. If I need to change the map for the engines well being I will. False economy to go cheap here.
But is the Jeffo map that bad? I had it on the bike for around 2 years and never had an issue until the blow up.
It's why I asked if there was any chance that Map could have been responsible for the issue but Hub said no.

* Last updated by: yannih on 7/26/2014 @ 3:28 AM *

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But is the Jeffo map that bad? I had it on the bike for around 2 years and never had an issue until the blow up.
It's why I asked if there was any chance that Map could have been responsible for the issue but Hub said no.

Jeffo probably had several maps. Perhaps a unique one for each bike he tuned. What matters is the Air/Fuel Ratio being produced by what ever Jeffo map is in YOUR bike. Why not get your PC3 hooked up to a computer and retrieve the map? Do a screen shot of it and post that here. If the fuel trims are similar to other PC3 maps, it should be fine.

Of course, I don't think Jeffo would be too wild about you posting his map. Send it to Rmans if it makes you feel any better. I'd look at it for you but I haven't a clue about this tuning business yet.

* Last updated by: Rook on 7/26/2014 @ 4:22 AM *

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To be honest, before I had the engine issue I loved the feel and response my bike had.

To be honest, snowflake is no more. Who makes the most power? The head. Snow's port casting is not going to line up sand for sand casting process call it. The flow is going to know. That's a given. Lets use this as a change in tune or how it felt, who knows, only your asspucker knows for sure.

My brother has a 2012 ZX-14r and after riding that I prefer mine everyday of the week (just wish mine had the electronics).

No-WAy. Why? Because no intervention with first gen. Smooth out the gate, no 3-pings applied, meaning, ign/sub/fuel.

If possible I'd like to leave all as it was to hopefully keep the same feel.

That's exactly what is going to happen. The head my have no effect, it's just out there as a variable the bike is peppier, Rook brings up the pistons so look at both as a change at the seat.

That also includes the Jeffo map if possible. If I need to change the map for the engines well being I will. False economy to go cheap here.

Again, a change in tuning is fuel to air related, not mechanical related. This is where you paid for that chain slip is that we are back in the same situation one relates a map to the mechanical. I have a stock ECU, I am going to blame the map for blowing out my #3 rod out the case. Does that make sense to you is every rod should blow with the maps made in the OE.. Hee-hee.

But is the Jeffo map that bad? I had it on the bike for around 2 years and never had an issue until the blow up.
It's why I asked if there was any chance that Map could have been responsible for the issue but Hub said no.

The only think response is how I step up to the bike and you tell me what is wrong. I have to weed out every abstract on line as to how they got there and it's not the person, but the concept of how they got there and I counter or agree.

Right now, I am countering:
1. Piston being brought up by sharpee = Noisexperiments.
2. Injectors brought up by the guy is always thinking things out like a me can nick. The theory is to nick this thing in the bud and see there is no need to swap anything else. I see where you are going, sharp one.
3. My mapisscrapissing in my pants laughing and tearing in me glass is Rooksteer keeps me on my toes.

Do we sort of understand where the coin, 'mapisscrapiss' comes from? It comes from the numbers processed into machine speak. It says you entered this number onto a cell block. This block looks to the 4 blocks around it and runs a calc off those. So as the liner heads up or down this cell number change, there is only one thing the processor does is end the calc with the BEST Binary Number.

Bi means:
My bike runs sweet OR...
My bike runs bad, anyone have a map for a....

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Hi All,

A final update.

The 2009 engine has arrived at my mechanics.
It will be installed with the 07 throttle bodies and 07 ECU.
I will also get a proper dyno tuned map for the PCIII. I decided it would be false economy not to do this properly.

Lastly the faulty 07 engine has been sold back to the same guys who sold me the 09 engine so we will probably never know what caused the issue unless they tear the engine down to sell as parts and are technical enough to see what caused the problem.

It's going to cost me a crap load of money but I will be back on the road in about 10 days time.

I definitely need to look at the positive side of this whole experience in that it happened in my garage at idle and not on the road somewhere at high speed that could have ended in tears or worse.

Thanks very much to all and their contributions regarding this process and shame i cant buy you all a beer.

See you on the road sometime...

* Last updated by: yannih on 7/28/2014 @ 3:29 AM *

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Sounds like you're on track. Good investigative work on the new setup.

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Just picked the bike up and am back in the game boys.
Goes like a cracker.
Any feedback on the below dyno tune results from the techo's here?

* Last updated by: yannih on 8/10/2014 @ 12:41 AM *

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That's good news to hear. I've been wondering how you were coming along, so thanks for the update. As far as the dyno sheet goes I think a gen1 with 185 hp is great. Does it feel more powerful?

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Is that the salvage engine's dyno pull?

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Your bike is set at 114 foot pounds and you are 5 pounds away. What does that say to me? Not bad for small, minor things done. You want more hp, you should have split the cases, installed those friction bearings along with the wheel bearings you want to find that extra 5 hidden?

Here is another thing. Where is the compression on the bike? HP means compression and if you are down, you'll never preset to 114lbs. Look at the date of the dyno chart. Maybe next month the 5 will show up? If the date is that messed up, where is the dyno and how clean is that 02 sniffer? How dialed in is the atmosphere sensor on the dyno? You have way too many scenarios at that dyno alone. He cleans and services the dyno, you going back to check out numbers again?

Look at it this way, I know I have 114 pounds in formula for argument sake. I know more hp does not make me better at the brakes. I know a 600 will go around me, hp did no make my balls grow for the corner speed either. I need to keep the bike off the dyno or when turtle called the bike connects right up, did I need a matching ECU or I am looking for another engine I just had to see a number. And that did what for me?

I'm wondering if you are in some engine blowing routine from under and you are more damaging your engine(s) once again with a dyno pull. Get over it and ride the crap out of it. Forget numbers. Are you going to listen or blow up another one?

Yes, this is the dyno pull of the 2009 engine, you caught the date of my first engine on the '07, because here we go again with the dyno and the fuse under you, yes or no? Say it ain't so.

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Just got back from a 3 day ride with the boys and the new engine is an absolute cracker!
I was concerned that that tight factory feel might be gone but there was nothing to worry about.
Silky smooth and great pulling power.
That Dyno tune was money well spent.
Very very happy.
Long live 2009 engines!!!

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The bike looks great, good to hear it all worked out for you!