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Thread: Full synthetic oil

Created on: 05/13/12 07:32 PM

Replies: 18

GunSurgeon


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Location: Maryland

Joined: 04/09/12

Posts: 18

Full synthetic oil
05/13/12 7:32 PM

I'm about to do my 2nd oil change at 3000 miles. I was going to switch to Golden Spectro Platinum 10w-40 full synthetic. I was just curious if there is any reason not to go full synthetic on the ZX14r ? And if anybody has in issues with Golden Spectro oil. I used it in my 08 Busa with no issues but I never went full synthetic.



"Motorcycling is not, of itself, inherently dangerous. It is, however, extremely unforgiving of inattention, ignorance, incompetence, or stupidity "

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PaulAB


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RE: Full synthetic oil
05/13/12 9:36 PM

Check the maintenance section of the forum and you will see tests on wear characteristics with different oils.

I believe Amsoil full synthetic is about the best choice you can make; although it will cost a few or several pennies more than most.

Ran it in my first gen 14 and just put it, following 2000 break in miles, in the 14 R. I did not note nearly the change in shifting ease that the first gen 14 evidenced; I'm thinking that's cause the R has better cut and finished gear box to begin with and shifted like a dream from day one. Heh, heh.

Bike does appear to be running at a lower operating temperature than it did with the dino oil used for first two changes during break in. Noticed that thanks to the new temp gauge on the R and because I have run similar routes, in ambient temperatures and traffic conditions on recent runs as I did before with the dino oil. Purposely did similar trials to test new suspension settings and noticed engine temp difference incidentally.



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privateer


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RE: Full synthetic oil
05/13/12 11:37 PM

I will switch to Amsoil on my C14 when I get back from Arkansas end of June. That will be at about 2,500 miles.



Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6

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21744



Joined: 11/06/09

Posts: 150

RE: Full synthetic oil
05/14/12 9:09 AM

A number of high performance sports cars come from the factory with synthetic oil. Corvette for one.

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zx14racer


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Location: New Jersey

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RE: Full synthetic oil
05/14/12 11:58 AM

Listen once and for all. It doesnt matter when u put it in, i put amsoil in at 600 miles. It wont hurt a thing. Even if u stay with regular oil no problem. You'll never know the diffrence. You won't have the bike long enough to have engine problems anyway. So do whatever makes u more comfortable.


* Last updated by: zx14racer on 5/14/2012 @ 11:59 AM *



2012 ZX14R.....Brocks CT exhaust,PC5,Gearing,Slammed and Pulled!!!

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Hub


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RE: Full synthetic oil
05/14/12 1:43 PM

Listen once and for all. It doesnt matter when u put it in...

Why waste your time, racer. Ask the peenultimate question, "WOT is your compression" with all that oil changing? I gotta change the oil to some magic [pee yes I] said, the waste is in the C. No Comp near the max number, did the oil really pee serve the unit in hand?

Wait a minute. Did I just waste my time too?

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zx14racer


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Location: New Jersey

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RE: Full synthetic oil
05/14/12 2:54 PM

Hub i don't get you. Are u trying to me funny writing all this gibberish??? I don't get it sorry.



2012 ZX14R.....Brocks CT exhaust,PC5,Gearing,Slammed and Pulled!!!

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privateer


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RE: Full synthetic oil
05/14/12 4:16 PM

Dunno racer, most of time his signal-to-noise ratio is right off the scale. Sometimes we get a glimpse of lucidity.

Regarding your opinion it doesn't matter when you switch, you are probably right.

But I've been doing it this way for 40+ years, and always had engines that ran better than they should have, so I'm not likely to take the advice of someone on a forum on this issue.

Riding to the meet and greet last Saturday (we had a great turn out, even 2 ZX14Rs showed up) I not only ran the gears as much as possible, but when cruising in 5th, constantly let the rpm fall as low as I could and still have enough torgue to roll on, and then ran it back to +10 over the speed limit, over and over. Sometimes in 5th, sometimes in 4th, sometimes in 3rd in the mountains.

Breaking her in by the book, like I've always done. Heh. Got to get it done before I ride from MD to Arkansas in the 2nd week of June.


* Last updated by: privateer on 5/14/2012 @ 4:18 PM *



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zx14racer


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Location: New Jersey

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RE: Full synthetic oil
05/14/12 5:38 PM

Yep like i said,do what makes you comfortable. These engines are so good anymore as long as you keep oil in it,and don't redline it all day,your fine. Hell i bet you take 2 of the same bike dyno them to make sure both engines are of equl health and strength,then one guy run dino oil and run hit pretty hard,and the other guy run full syn. oil,and after 35000 miles check both bikes over, and dyno them i'd bet they would run still almost the same.



2012 ZX14R.....Brocks CT exhaust,PC5,Gearing,Slammed and Pulled!!!

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privateer


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RE: Full synthetic oil
05/14/12 7:28 PM

Well, these days you are right. This stuff is so precise now, you can't influence them as much as the engines in the 1960s through the 1980s.

I guess all that matters really is adhere to the manual as far as recommended oil type and change intervals, until its clear you got a good one. Because even today, there is plenty of evidence the factories kick out a bad one once in a while, and thats when you want the warranty to be there.



Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6

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One4R


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RE: Full synthetic oil
05/14/12 11:16 PM

No doubt there is a lot of hype about oil. One common myth about a pure syn is you don't have to change it as often as a mineral based. Oil molecules are molecules regardless of whether they're synthetic or not. Molecules get sheared by metal edges. Fluids regardless of content collect and hold dirt. The main reason I have always run synthetics in all my high performance machinery, including V-8's and 14 liter diesels, and associated gearboxes, is high heat protection. It's also pretty much a given that an engine running a good synthetic can develop as much as 5% more crank hp due to less resistance and higher lubricity. The main reason why turbo chargers fail is from turbine bearing coking. Coking is when an oil actually starts turning into a hard dried diamond like subtance on a super hot turbo bearing. What are diamonds made from? Chunks of carbon. Have a turbo powered anything? Do you let it idle for a minute or two after you park it? You'll be replacing that turbo about twice as often as you would if you let it cool down . Not as much as an issue with synthetic that can stay viscous at temps beyond 350F.
Dino oils start coking at 259 F. If you're running a machine of any kind, any kind of coolant issue can destroy an engine or set of gears once the oil starts boiling off and turning into little industrial diamond grinders. A good syn can mean the difference in untold dollars in damage in a cooling system failure. Having worked on gas turbine engines of different types, I can honestly report I have always seen synthetic lubricants used. The main use for oil in a gas turbine is to lube the bearings supporting the rotating assemblies spinning at literally tens of thousands of RPM. Lots of filter servicing before there are complete oil services. No dino oils to be seen in this environment. I usually use Redline oils myself, but I have been using Rotella T 5w40 syn more and more now, not just because of cost and convenience (any Wmart) but it meets or exceeds all standards for heavy diesel use which means its more than durable for any hard use. I mean, I was just sayin.'



"Buy the ticket, take The Ride." -HST.
'12 ZX-14R. Metallic Spark. Full CT duals, PC5, Brock's Pump Track map, Muzzy Bonneville Box, Muzzy fender eliminator,Heli-Risers. Redline Oils, Water Wetter, Shell 89, Meguiar's, NeverDull

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zx14racer


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Location: New Jersey

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RE: Full synthetic oil
05/15/12 6:25 AM

Could you repeat that one more time!!



2012 ZX14R.....Brocks CT exhaust,PC5,Gearing,Slammed and Pulled!!!

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privateer


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RE: Full synthetic oil
05/15/12 7:27 AM

One4R is wrong regarding longevity.

The molecules in synthetic are not the same as in petroleum-based oils. But thats not the important thing.

The two important things are a) how fast does the wet clutch reduce the viscosity to dangerous levels, and b) how long does it take for the oil to degrade and produce acidic contaminants.

First, synthetic oils do not degrade into acidic contaminants. They don't have enough of the kind of hydrocarbons found in petroleum-based oils to produce acid. Acidic contaminants eat bearings among other things.

Second, and several oil companys have done valid extended lab and field tests to prove it, the good synthetic oils retain viscosity in wet clutch applications longer than the petroleum oils. This is not my opinion, both AMSOIL and Mobil have valid tests published. AMSOIL has literally 100 pounds worth of documents showing results.

AMSOIL has done the most testing, and they had it done by various respected labs and government agencies. One simple test is running the automotive blend in New York taxi cabs. Another was a straight up viscosity shoot out.

But its not whether AMSOIL is better than any other synthetic, but that all good synthetics will retain viscosity in a wet clutch environment longer than any petroleum-based oil, and will have much better longevity than petroleum-based oils.


* Last updated by: privateer on 5/15/2012 @ 7:30 AM *



Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6

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Hub


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Joined: 02/05/09

Posts: 8676

RE: Full synthetic oil
05/15/12 10:23 AM

Listen once and for all. It doesnt matter when u put it in...


Buncha BS.... Acid in the oil and all that... Ha-HA! Way too many barn finds with oil back in the 1940's 50's... No matter... Whatever floats your boat or can.


* Last updated by: Hub on 5/15/2012 @ 10:24 AM *

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Grn14


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RE: Full synthetic oil
05/15/12 10:28 AM

14R manual says full syn is an option straight out the gate.

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privateer


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RE: Full synthetic oil
05/15/12 12:00 PM

Hub wrote:

Buncha BS.... Acid in the oil and all that... Ha-HA! Way too many barn finds with oil back in the 1940's 50's... No matter... Whatever floats your boat or can.

But you would not run that barn find for any length of time without draining the old, worthless oil, and putting fresh in immediately. Also, having rescued a couple bikes from under blankets and various stuff in the back of garages and once a barn, I can tell you the main bearing were pitted and though they would have run once the decayed spark plug wires were replaced, running them more than a minute or two would have spun the bearings and make rebuilding way more expensive.

Besides, it doesn't matter what you think, if the testing shows it happens, then.. hmmm.. you must be wrong.



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Grn14


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RE: Full synthetic oil
05/15/12 1:00 PM

Been running 10/40(300V) Dino Motul now for around 2K miles...seems to be doing just fine and it's still pretty clearish in the sightglass.

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One4R


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RE: Full synthetic oil
05/16/12 2:52 AM

Please don't misunderstand me, when I referenced the 'molecules' I knew somebody would have to jump in and point out that polymers and minerals are different?!!. Masterminds.
Regardless of their make-up they get mashed under pressure and they get sliced into little itty bitty pieces that don't flow and resist pressures like nice fresh clean oil. I don't sit around long enough to enjoy the lingering viscosity advantages of syns over mins. Once again I reiterate, in my experience I have found more horsepower, cooler running temps, and the satisfaction of having added thermal protection attributes. The one thing I do is treat all oils the same in my machines. I don't follow mfg recommendations on oil services. My extreme duty machines, used on the street all get double filter changes at 1500 miles. My bikes are serviced at 600 miles. Oil and filter is changed, drive the vehicle around the block, r&r the filters again and top off the oil. It's not a cheap practice, I agree maybe even a little anal, but it works for me. If you have an engine that you'e worried about acid concentrations collecting in then maybe you need to rethink you're maintenance intervals. I've used full syns in everything from drag racing cars, endurance road racing v-8's, road racing 2 strokes, 4 strokes, desert racing v-8's, personal family, and work vehicles. Clutch slippage issues? Not once. First syn I ever used was Mobil 1. Had migration problems on even fresh motors when there were none with others. Same with Amsoil. I agree with Hub, eff all the blather, pick your own shit, change yer shit often and keep it well filtered. And just get your ass out there and ride your ZX-14R. I mean if you have one.


* Last updated by: One4R on 5/16/2012 @ 3:09 AM *



"Buy the ticket, take The Ride." -HST.
'12 ZX-14R. Metallic Spark. Full CT duals, PC5, Brock's Pump Track map, Muzzy Bonneville Box, Muzzy fender eliminator,Heli-Risers. Redline Oils, Water Wetter, Shell 89, Meguiar's, NeverDull

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mark43



Joined: 12/05/11

Posts: 447

RE: Full synthetic oil
05/16/12 5:58 AM

After 2000 miles i would run full syn ..


But some times i mix dino with syn never had a issue in over 50 years of owning bikes....

For the last 4 or 5 years i have been running rotella dino and syn with awesome results....and available on sundays.

As long as your not running veg or olive oil i really don't see a big deal wIth the different brands... just stay away from energy conserving .

Had alot friends that ran castrol GTX 10/40 w car oil for years never heard of one motor that went down.

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