Ah, got it.
Thanks mate.

Will check out...

So just had a look in the 14R service manual.
Which fuse?

ABS ECU fuse?
ABS solenoid valve relay fuse?
ABS motor relay fuse?

* Last updated by: yannih on 5/25/2015 @ 10:48 AM *

If it were me, I'd try the ABS ECU fuse.

Hey Rook, I'm pretty much 100% sure its the ABS kicking in due to the superior new brake lines locking the rear wheel earlier than before as you say.

Some Good News 100% is a Good number.

More annoying than anything else as you have to hit the lever fairly hard to make it happen.

Which is normal. Rear tire should not be locking up or dragging under light pressure. Sure sounds like all is good ?

Go back to seeing if rotor is getting warm for no good reason. Next get ABS to come on slightly when stopping. Go to rear after stop see if black strips on the tire. All does sound ok.

This is very hard over the net. Can you switch bikes with a friend ? Same bike of course.

Hi All.
Latest update.

As Hagrid advised, I de-energised the ABS by removing the relevant fuse.
I then took the bike for a ride and the rear locked very quickly with with no more than medium pressure on the brake pedal with ABS disconnected (those SS brake lines are good!) with no pulsing.
So it is definitely the ABS kicking in.

But is there any resolution as I hate it when my bike isn't as it should be.

And has anyone else experienced this issue when adding rear SS brake lines to an ABS spec'd ZX-14?

Really hoping someone can help here.

* Last updated by: yannih on 8/4/2015 @ 1:53 AM *

Nothing on this one guys?

Mmmm...
Didn't think any 14 related issue could stump the guys on this site but looks like I might have found something that has.
Bugger.
I hate my bike not being right.

* Last updated by: yannih on 8/11/2015 @ 7:17 AM *

What's mode is your traction control set to? 2 or 3 could see it happening. 1 or off probably not. Does you abs light flicker when this happens? Just guessing as my bike doesn't have abs.

* Last updated by: Blkcasper on 8/20/2015 @ 4:15 PM *

"Again no issue with light or medium rear braking, but a nasty mechanical uneven pulse through the brake pedal with heavy rear braking"...Yanman...it's doing what it's SUPPOSED to do.There's NOTHING wrong with it...."my bike is not right'...yes it is.It's perfect!.Can you feel the rear wheel slipping?With HARD rear braking?I'll take a wild guess here...NO,you can't.Do this on any non-abs bike. Now feel the rear wheel skid?Okay.It's STOPPING that skid problem.You said 'hard' pedal application.Okay...that's the ONLY time you'll feel this pulsing.You WON'T feel the skid.What I'm saying is...riding along,and braking with the rear..on a non abs bike...you HEAR the skid...when it's taken hold(and feel it once it's reached it's maximum lock).On the abs bike,the skid is stopped way before you'd hear it(or feel it).All the abs sensor needs is 'slight' grip loss to begin working.So slight you don't feel OR hear it.It's possible your new lines may have a slightly smaller ID...or as was mentioned,the lines are now staying 'unflexible'...in any case...your lines and abs are working fine.

I've never heard ANYONE comment on the ABS circuit,and just WHEN it starts kicking in.Other than..'when the wheel loses traction'.But I'm wondering IF the ABS sensor is being 'intuitive' as the Ktrc CAN be when set to say,3.This would mean the wheel didn't actually NEED to be losing traction...only 'approaching' a 'loss of traction condition' calculated by the ECU parameters.

The new lines may very well be keeping that fluid in a more 'solid' state now..so the pedal and brakes are performing...'quicker' or 'better' than with the OEM lines.(no loss of force through line expansion).

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 8/20/2015 @ 8:21 PM *

Hi Guys and thanks for the replies.
I have TC1 set 99% of the time plus there is no flickering of the ABS light at all.
And I understand the ABS is kicking in and doing its job.
It just that with standard OEM brake lines the pulsing was not felt and all was silky smooth.
Now with the new SS lines a solid mechanical pulse is felt on the rear.
What I dont get is why no one else on this site who has changed rear brake lines on ABS models has experienced the same thing?
Romans updated to SS braided lines with no issue at all.
If its a smaller diameter ID with zero expansion in the new braided lines that is causing the problem on the rear, why dont I feel the pulse on the updated front stoppers as well?

Something must be amiss.

* Last updated by: yannih on 8/21/2015 @ 5:57 AM *

No..nothings amiss.You say it was 'smooth as silk' before.I have factory lines on mine.It is NOT smooth as silk when I apply hard rear pedal.It pulsates(depending).The manual even SAYS it should pulsate.If it's not...you're either not pushing the pedal hard enough to cause a skid,OR,your abs is not working...in which case you will get that yellow lamp coming on.Try it again.And BTW...the front I've never locked up...and I've tried a few times.Plus NO pulsing from the front lever.But it IS working.

I don't want you to take this a wrong way Yan...but 'before'...it's possible you didn't either notice the pulse,or you simply haven't locked the rear.This pulsing can be very light,or very strong.It could go unnoticed if a guy let off the brakes just as it was activating.

Your system is fine.Locking the front is hard to do...for me anyway.

"plus there is no flickering of the ABS light at all"...there shouldn't be.If there is,something is going on with the ABS.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 8/21/2015 @ 7:50 AM *

Okay, youve convinced me.
I know the system is working as it should.
Just such a strong pulse from the rear but I generally dont break hard enough for it to occur.
I'll live with it.

Thanks again...

You know...depending on the situation..."hard braking' may NOT be necessary for the wheel to skid.So it could occur with lighter braking as well...progressively entering into a hard pedal force and ABS interference.

I have read speculation on a couple of different websites about different brake lines affecting ABS and TC and it's all BS. ALL flexible brake lines are teflon tubes inside. New rubber-encased stock lines are every bit as stiff as braided-stainless jacketed lines. It's only when they get old and the rubber begins losing strength that they can allow some expansion and softening of braking feel.

Traction control and ABS are electronically-actuated systems that are controlled by wheel-speed sensors. ABS works by sensing wheel speeds approaching zero and bleeding off brake pressure to prevent lockup. TC works by sensing the difference between the speeds of the front and rear wheels and cutting fuel and-or ignition to prevent wheelspin and loss of traction. If there is a problem with either system, it's electronic and not likely mechanical.

Danno is correct. Check rear disc runout. Take a coat hanger wire, a vice grip, clamp the wire close the the outer most edge disc and if it hits or moves away = Junk ~ causing pulse.

Pad push means; if the warp is in; it's going to push oil back up the line be it OE or Amkt. Say with racing line, it's lighter, thinner line, makes pressure faster, runs zero expansion. Once the pressure is off, for every action, she's headed back up the master to relieve pressure or atmospheric at the oil pressure. Can't be a clogged line. Can't be slow flow back up the master or you'd drag the disc more, not only that, racers would not use a slow return of fluid so as to drag the brakes? We there yet?

Watch my processor(s) in action:
1. I brake and this broke traction; that's instant window lock or the tone wheel off the rim has just locked solid. The input is equal tone wheel to tone wheel fore and aft, it is now either wheel locking and the processing is so fast, it unlocks the brakes till the tone wheel is back in balance. And back in traction is just as quick, so back to your hand move in a panic, if not the rear brake, it processes that fast. You fell that shutter or the flipflop cycling to ground and back on line. Better known as the dump cycle [flipflop is to dump RAM] to see where you are at now?

2. I wheelie, this slows down the tone wheel vs. the rear wheel. Kawi cuts fuel/ign/sub; was the press release mentioning this. I light up the rear wheel, this too upsets the tone wheel balance of both wheels moving without slip or loft. So this processing triggers with an eye blink kind of [lightening] speed.

Thanks guys.
I will check for rear disk runout.

However a simple fact remains.
The rear brake was perfect with the old OEM lines and the issue started immediately after the installation of the new SS lines.
Therefore one must conclude the new lines must be responsible, even if only for a percentage?

Put the stock rubber-jacketed line back on and re-bleed to see if the pulsing goes away. If it does, blame the SS line even though you are the only one experiencing this phenomena. The ABS unit bleeds off pressure, so there may be some air trapped in there from the changeover.

Anyone know the ID of the SS lines vs the factory ones?Visually,on mine when I had ss lines(my 07)..they LOOKED smaller on the OD.I imagine the ID was smaller as well.That could be the factory covering however making those appear larger diameter(OD).Would a smaller ID cause the fluid to actually be more..."solid" and require less pedal pressure to work?

"The rear brake was perfect with the old OEM lines and the issue started immediately after the installation of the new SS lines.
Therefore one must conclude the new lines must be responsible, even if only for a percentage?"...I think so.Sounds like they're just allowing the ABS circuit to activate quicker...not a problem.Better that than not working quicker.

If I might ask...where did you get these lines from?

"Hel SS transparent red front/rear brake and clutch lines"..okay...I've heard of these...but I wonder how many guys here have used these?Especially the ones who replaced their OEM lines with the SS and reported no issue like this.

There's nothing wrong with the lines,ABS or anything else IMO.They're just working 'better'.I mean...isn't this why guys replace these lines?To get a better brake feel?Now you are.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 10/5/2015 @ 6:08 AM *

Hi guys,
i haven't given this issue the time I should have.

Its still there. Strong as ever.
However there is some news.

I haven't used Hubs runout check yet, but when i had the bike up on stands and was washing the rims the rear rotor was scraping on the pads when rotated in a certain position over and over.
I am assuming this can only be a warped rear rotor.

Perhaps the older lines were allowing some expansion to cover this issue and the new lines have shown the problem for what it is?

Which leads to the next question.
Replace the rear rotor, but stay with OEM or go after market?

Anyone have much experience or advise on this?

* Last updated by: yannih on 10/5/2015 @ 3:04 PM *

I haven't used Hubs runout check yet, but when i had the bike up on stands and was washing the rims the rear rotor was scraping on the pads when rotated in a certain position over and over.
I am assuming this can only be a warped rear rotor.

If that was a front rotor I would say "maybe no problem, a little warp in a large rotor like that". I can hear my front squeak in one spot sometimes when I push the bike. OEM did it and the larger diameter 13" CZ rotors do it worse (yep one of those was out of spec for OEM and CZ does not have runnout spec for rotors).

Since this is a relatively small rear rotor, I would consider a consistent squeak a sign of being warped out of spec. I believe the only time my rear rotor makes a noise is maybe when it gets a little rusty from sitting wet. Then that goes away as soon as I use the brake a few times.

You'll need a wheel stand, magnetic base and dial guage. About $120 worth of stuff.

steps 17-20 here: WHEEL AXLE DISK AND SPROCKET INSPECTION

Replace the rear rotor, but stay with OEM or go after market?

OR for that price, maybe just try a new rotor and put it on. Nice to be able to test runnout though. You could do this without the wheel stand if you lift the rear wheel and use the dial gauge and base in the same way as shown with the wheel stand. about $20 worth of stuff.

No complaints with my Galfer rear wave rotor. Lighter than stock but no better in braking performance that I can tell. Looks cool.

Best to replace the pads along with the rotor. I would go with stock pads. EBC sintered double H feel same as stock to me and the fronts started to make a noise after 15k miles even though they had none of the low speed light application squeal the OEMs have on the front. EBS 2H has been fine with OEM and Galfer on the back but no better than OEM in any way.

* Last updated by: Rook on 10/5/2015 @ 8:48 PM *

I have an OEM ZX-14 rear rotor you can have for cheap if it'll work. Or is the ABS sensor ring part of the rotor? I replaced my rear with a Galfer rotor to match the fronts, but there was nothing wrong with the one I removed.

Hi Danno.

Thanks for the kind offer.
Is it ABS compatible and will it fit my Gen 2?