Hi Guys, Im back again seeking your wisdom and knowledge :-)

I set up my suspension as soft as possible with the correct sag and stuff,
(can't remember the numbers now but i did it as per recommendations for the bike)

When i go around a corner im always pushing the inner handle bar out.

When im coming down the big hill at Kariong (central coast) the handlebars shake vigorously if i let them go.

I put a small top box on the back rack for my hand bag and lunch box but that couldn't do it, could it ?

All original height, i have the suspension soft as im not real heavy (girl weight).

I have done 3 things since i bought it, put stubby mufflers on, softened the suspension front and back, and my top box.

Took my zx9r for a ride today and realised how bad my zx14r is turning corners (and how small the zx9r feels now, lol)

What do you think i could try to fix it please?

Big hugs to all my zx14r friends, I love my 14

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When i go around a corner im always pushing the inner handle bar out.

Tire pressure/tire wear?

the handlebars shake vigorously if i let them go.

Back again to front wear, pressure, balance. And the back tire is flat in the center?

rack... but that couldn't do it, could it?

If it was heavily weighed with hands off, then yes, sometimes the weight moves on your counters.

All original height

Hummm, I'd have to go back to tire wear/pressures.

Here's a front end setup procedure I do. I torque the one fork to it's measured height or see the taper begin at the bottom under the lower steering crown? The fork can only be pinched at those flat areas, not at the lower part were it begins to taper down. So you have two choices if say you packed the steering bearings, drained the forks, had the book number or didn't, etc., you'd know by the taper and shadow of the original pinch.

That says, my one fork is stationary, my other fork has to have the axle slide thru both forks effortlessly. Plus, it spins by hand easier as I move the one fork up and down and find that easy spin. This squares the axle to the stationary and the floating forks. Now I pinch the other fork and make sure as I do, I keep spinning the axle so it does not bind. That more or less centers the front end of the forks.

Someone said they changed tires and it steered funny and thought it was the other brand tire. He said it would lean over fine on one side and was weird as he transitioned over to the other side. For some reason, I walk over to his bike, first thing I look at are his forks. One sat higher than the other it was so obvious. He came back in and said that fixed it.

* Last updated by: Hub on 5/20/2016 @ 9:08 AM *

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1. Never crashed, right? Right. Ignore 2-3.

2. Yes, it was crashed and minor parts were installed. OK, then move the steering [upper steering crown] and point that straight. Is the front wheel slightly off with forks and crowns being straight? Why yes, they caddy wompus heading in two directions.

3. I think you found the arm pump situation.

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If the front tire is worn in a pointy shape the bike will fall in on corners and wag its head with your hands off the bars. First make sure you've got good tires on the bike. Then if you can, find a shop that specializes in setting up suspensions. In 20 minutes they can transform the bike and get it handling like you want.
My bike was set up soft when I picked it up and handled like CRAP. Almost scary. Had a company spend about a half hour with me sitting on the bike and adjusted the preloads and damping and the difference was outstanding. And they cured the weird wear issue I was having.
Mad

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Hi Guys
Thank you for helping, im lost without you all.

Tyres are road pilot 4 , i pump up the front and back to 42 psi.
Wear is good and even, they have about 60% life left on them.

Never crashed and its done about 20,000 kilometers.

Hi Mad, Unfortunately there are no good trustworthy mechanics with suspension knowledge around Gosford, I may have to go to sydney .

I assumed if i put a top box on it would lift the front and steer out, but it doesnt ,so confusing.

If i cornered every where standing the bike up, off the side of the seat like valentino Rossi it would be ok but that's not practical.

The axle slides even Hub, i understand what you are saying there.

They definitely didn't make zx14r's with handbag compartments in mind, lol.

* Last updated by: Maddy on 5/21/2016 @ 4:40 AM *

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I was telling a guy about the same situation on my old bike. He told me, "if the front end shakes when let go of the bars, don't let go of the bars."

When yo say let go of the bars do you mean both hands, a hand, or just relaxing your grip? Did it do this before adjusting the suspension? Does it always shake when you let go of the bars or just that turn or certain roadways or speeds?

I think it's likely a combination of things. 40% is enough wear it's possible the wear isn't occuring evenly. Then also it's probably something with that roadway, maybe some ripples or buckles or something. It could also be downhill, and braking would temporarily decrease your rake which causes your front end to be a little less stable.

Suspension tuning is something that should be done gradually. Making big changes can often lead to problems, possibly even this. If anything, set the suspension back to factory settings and see if the problem goes away.

Could be loose steering head nut or worn steering bearings but probably not likely. If you can perform a steering play inspection (requires the front wheel be free).

I don't think it's a tire if---It was normal before the lunchbox and suspension tune? Then it got weird after the lunchbox and suspension tune?

Easy to test by returning to stock.

IDK how the book says to set sag but if it does not entail measuring with YOU on the bike, it's probably not right. There is bike sag and rider sag. Rider sag is most important for obvious reasons. Front sag is extremely simple to measure with a zip tie. If rear sag is not addressed, front sag could be throwing geometry off. Seems like it would be more likely to be and issue if you softened up the rear preload and left the front hard but you did the opposite? A softer front is a lower front --should improve handling but you do set the forks more straight up and down which steepens your rake/trail. reference the shopping cart wheel analogy. Shopping cart wheels wiggle cuz they have very steep rake /trail which allows them to turn on a dime in a crowded, narrow aisle. Give the shopping cart wheel brackets that are an inch longer laterally, no more wiggle but does not handle as sharp anymore. That could be your trouble. Front is too steep. Doubt it's a tire if this trouble coincides all the sudden with suspension setting change. Again return to stock and test you have your answer.

So what ever happened with the oil leak, Maddy? Oil drain from air box?

* Last updated by: Rook on 5/20/2016 @ 9:08 PM *

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Thanks guys
I was thinking the rake angle was too steep, that's why i softened the rear but i dont think it helped.
It wobbles with both hands loose or off the grips coming down a big hill, possibly thats sinking the front end.

I will tighten down the front load adjusters a bit and pick the nose back up.
I did the sag thing with me on it and the cable ties around the forks, i did set them to a maximum drop, it looks like too much.

The oil leak Rook, ummmn how embarrassing , i forgot i post that on here.
When the bike was on the hoist i used a load of innox on the back shock, it must have pooled somewhere and then when i parked it on the side stand all the innox ran out.

Thats why i have a hand bag compartment, because at times, im just a little princess lol.xox

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I hope you can get it sorted. If you like the suspension settings you have adding a steering damper would probably help with head shake.

Also about your 9 vs 14. I think you've come to see what we all like/love about this bike. It truly is a super bike in every aspect. Unfortunately I've never ridden a 9 but I can imagine it must be quite different from the big 14. I will say tire choice is definitely a factor in how agile a 14 feels.

Not sure if tires are more or less important in that feel compared to something like a 9R, 6R, or 10R. I think being heavier with longer wheelbase the tires may make more of a difference in how this bike feels approaching a corner. I've not run PR4s so I don't know how they compare with the other tires I've had. But generally I'd say something like M7RRs or Rosso IIs provide the lighter steering I prefer over the OE M5s or S20 Evos. None of these are higher mileage tires though and from the looks of it the Rosso IIs might be in the 2500 to 3000 miles range. But if you want lighter steering, Rosso IIs are probably what I perceive as the lightest steering I've had, with a 55 I almost say it's too twitchy.

down a big hill, possibly thats sinking the front end.

I would think pointing downhill alone would have the same effect as steepening the rake even if the front suspension was not compressing. Rake and trail is measured on a flat surface. Downhill, the forks get even more straight up and down to gravity + maybe the rear suspension extends a little especially with increased rear preload = sort of the same thing as having steeper rake than on a flat surface. So it would seem. I wouldn't want to test it by going down an even steeper hill. Not at the moment. LOL

adding a steering damper would probably help with head shake.

I would think but if you go this route, you might want to consider using a linear steering damper that is constantly damping. I think all of the dampers on the market are linear except the HyperPro RSC. The Hyper-Pro RSC is popular but it is completely neutral unless you have an abrupt steering input such as only can be caused by the wheel snapping back into alignment. IDK if the H-P RSC would be triggered at all if your wobble is more like a vibration. The CSC would seem to be the better choice but it will make the steering stiffer all the time. I'd do everything possible to sort it without the damper first---so you know your steering damper won't be overwhelmed when you down a steep hill since hills seem to cause the problem. Also, consider how much duty a steering damper would be doing in your situation. I'm sure it would take it since they use them for stunting but you'd probably want to have it serviced every year as suggested by the mnfctr. I have never serviced mine in 4-5 years but it is still working. I can tell the change when I don't have it on the bike. An occasional wobble or two with it off but NEVER with it on.

* Last updated by: Rook on 5/21/2016 @ 9:16 AM *

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You say u have 60% of the tread left. Assuming the life of your tire is ~10K kilometers, you've only put 4K kilometers on the tire? To me that's only 2400 miles, not much yet. But, if you actually have ~8K kilometers on the tire you may need a new one. It may also have lost a balance weight ?? and between the wear and unbalanced wheel the wobble maybe causing the head shake when you remove the human dampers (your hands)

My '06 turned like shit until I put on a set of new Mich PP 2CT and then it turned great.

* Last updated by: cruderudy on 5/21/2016 @ 8:39 PM *

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I have my forks raised 3/8" above the stock figure of 3/4" above the top clamp to the top of the tube. made it steer quicker and easier with no loss o straight-line stability. A 190/55 rear tire helps also. the more triangular peofile flops into the tun more easily and the added ride height makes the front even a little bit steeper.

Softer settings in the rear will tend to make a heavy bike run wide out of turns, making it that much more of a wrestling match.

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I have my forks raised 3/8" above the stock figure of 3/4" above the top clamp to the top of the tube. made it steer quicker and easier with no loss of straight-line stability. A 190/55 rear tire helps also. The more triangular profile flops into the turn more easily and the added ride height makes the front even a little bit steeper.

Softer settings in the rear will tend to make a heavy bike run wide out of turns, making it that much more of a wrestling match.

* Last updated by: Danno on 6/19/2016 @ 7:26 PM *

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You need Dave Moss
He has a app DM Tuning
You can google him. He has a bunch of videos.
All about tires, tire pressure, suspension set up and tuning.
I love the app! He has personally helped me with my 2014 14r
You can get him on Facebook messenger he will give you a base line set up for a $20 donation.
He has been doing suspension for 20+ years I think.
He is the mad scientist of suspension.

DM can still ride competitively well at his age too.

If the trunk fits, Maddy. I forgot about the handling sitting out back. Think about a flag's last flip or snap. When you move the bars, go over a bump, shift your weight, think of that trunk being that snapping end [weight] transfer of a snap. And then think, 'for every action...', here comes the trunk coming the other way, then back again, and you then keep correcting up front for the shifting at the tail end.

I rest my [fiberglass/injection mold] case.

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I figured out my problem, when i replaced the stock mufflers with the little ones i took about 30kg off the back, this lifted the back and dropped the nose.
Thats what threw it all out, I softened the rear a bit and stiffened the front and its all good ;-)

Thanks for your help, thoughts and ideah's.

Maddy xox

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When you say soften, what are you mean? I've dialed in suspension on a lot of bikes, and to me soften means adjusting your preload. As mentioned before, this should be done properly. And 14's are very plush to start with. If you don't have a shop handy that will do it for you, then just get two friends and you can do it yourself. Just find a YouTube video to guide you.

As for tires, PR4's are great tires for the first half of their life, but on the second half, the front really degrades. Steering suffers significantly. Only tire I've used where the front needs to be replaced at the same time as the rear.

Last diagnosis is that your front/rear suspension settings are not balanced. ie: to much compression damping in front, not enough in the rear, same for rebound, vice versa etc.

I don't know if you are a fast/aggressive rider or not, but if you aren't then this behavior is concerning.

Here is weight transfer, who cares, the front end is a hinge, yes or no?
Whatever Maddy did, I think the adjustments are trail induced.

If Maddy would have let go of the bars shaking, the front end might drop or rise for that mph to wiggle. That's down the road... sticking more telemetry on the front end's hinge. But you get the idea. Easier steering you add a bag, passenger, tire wm change from stock, all that in the future kind of heading in that direction.

So statically speaking where an oil needle position is not in the theory, look at the trail. Watch where the weight bias changea or the rear end is now kicked up. Where does the trail land? The front tire's patch is now closer to the bike. Lower the rear, the patch kicks out the other way like a chopper with a stable front end sticking out and riding straight ahead, but terrible around a turn, or corner block.

Does trail make sense?

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