Just curious of one vs. the other. I've tried to find some kind of testing to see which might be the better option (probably gonna be ordering an exhaust for next season). One thing I like about PCV, isn't gonna void my warranty.

My other thought is maybe buy another ECU for hte bike, keep the OE OE and the second one flashed.

My main concern isn't really performance, but making sure the engine maintains proper AFR with a full exhaust.

If its one or the other, I'd suggest getting the PC5. Then if you decide get a flash, you can still try different maps or tune AFR.

---

Just curious of one vs. the other. I've tried to find some kind of testing to see which might be the better option (probably gonna be ordering an exhaust for next season). One thing I like about PCV, isn't gonna void my warranty.

Takes a Man to stand back for a year, wait, not tamper and leave any little thing on the table to dispute.
Takes a Man to mod up, take the chance and Oh Well! I couldn't waiturtle timeout. You guys crack me up when that warranty comes into play.

My other thought is ... keep the OE and the second one flashed.

That's an option.

My main concern isn't really performance, but making sure the engine maintains proper AFR with a full exhaust.

Here is my proper AFR:
PAIR disabled.
Air cleaner sneeze screen removed.
Pipe of my choice.
Pc5 and run a map.
Run Ivan's I forget which, but it's fuel cut to the rich side on lift. Stops the pop and takes a Man to lose the gear select window reading N or 6 using that setup.

How many smoothings?
1. PAIR goes smooth.
2. Screen goes smooth.
3. PC smooths things even more, plus an accel that takes no prisoners.
4. Hack to a rich lift is a mini-flash.
5. Pipe is along for the ride with way too much rich AFR to worry about.

---

I'm not sayin it's the right thing to do, but, I put 100 or so miles on my bikes loading and unloading and then drive it like I stole it and start moding it. I always have, it's just me, but honestly any warranty work I've ever had done has never had anything to do with what I did to it or how I rode it. Just lucky I guess.

Sic

---

If its one or the other, I'd suggest getting the PC5. Then if you decide get a flash, you can still try different maps or tune AFR.

Rook what I don't understand really is why do I need both? They both seem to do the same thing. According to PCV ($300) claims, it basically does the same thing as flashing ($400) EXCEPT modifying ignition timing which requires another module ($300). Again, don't really care about performance, it's more for AFR. If I get 8hp instead of 12hp, the reality is that won't make one bit of difference anywhere. Even a 12hp increase in reality is maybe good for 1/10 in the quarter. Main interest is shedding some weight, and a more lively exhaust note (not interested in outrageous at all)

Overall flash seems simpler because it's just removing the ECU which I believe is fairly accessible, vs. PCV needing installed and wires routed.

I'm thinking about this 2012-2013 ZX14 Muzzy SS Full Exhaust System except there's a CF vesion I think. My budget is 600-1000 for the exhaust (can't justify $2300 akro). Then adding a PCV. The one thing I'm not sure about is mapping. There's a few maps available for PCV from dynojet.

I like the round mufflers over the triangular ones today, but the smaller triangular ones aren't too bad (Yosh, Akro).

Hub

I bought a 4 year extended warranty. It would be quite stupid to do that then cause it to get voided by removing parts or flashing the ECU. Overall, I'm guessing I won't really use the warranty the first couple years. However, I can see the warranty serving some purpose as the bike gets some miles on it.

How to say this in dr. suess speak? Oh my who would care about a warranty of 1 year? Not me. But when I've paid for 4 more that would instiligous some fear of losing it I guess.

Vic flashing your ECU will not necessarily void your warranty. First, the chances of needing your warranty are slim, Big K builds some bulletproof machines. If you do need warranty work the chances of a tech knowing your ECU has been reflashed or even checking your ECU are slim to none, unless you tell them, and then he would have to know WHAT to look for. There is a VERY high probability that any warranty work you may need will not even be related to the ECU.

This part is important, it's federal law, before a factory can void your warranty they have to PROVE that the failure of your bike was directly caused by having your ECU reflashed, almost impossible!!!

---

Yup. And with a flash done right, you don't need a PCV. The accel pump feature is a garbage feature designed to simulate a carbureted feel on old fi bikes (think gen 1 busa), that had choppy off throttle transition response. Losing your gear indicator is not manly. It is dumb. Tech trickles down. WSB or MGP don't use pcv's. They use a flash specific to local conditions. Why? Because a pure ECU tune is a better and more refined product. Oh wait, that's what Nels and I do. PCV is old tech, why splice in a PCV when you get a better and more refined product that actually works your machine the way it was designed with a flash? I don't need an answer to that question. I know the answer.

---

Is that Kawi extended or aftermarket? Aftmrk seems to no care about how that warranty is used. The shop calls the repair and they cut a check. Kawi and a year of warr, you'll have the dealer district rep come, look at the damage and call the ball. So, that says wait the year out we bring up warranty and a fear factor as to how you abuse that bike with parts on [or not] within a year.

Every 14/bike I ever owned has been stripped/modded on day one, not even start or ride it first. What Man made decision do you think I chose?

I can't guess how Dr. Damage comes on line, leaves out a bunch of data, you are on the other end assuming with the limited info you have, we speak [a] warranty issue, a new bike, data-data-data is all she wrote, folks.

Signed,

I said, a Man mods his bike with or without warranty and takes those chances. And didn't I repeat how a Man waits 4 years for the warranty to run out, data-data-not my bike, sink or swim you lay one hand on that bike. Then technically, you bring up warranty, kawi still owns that bike for a year is the point. I'm not about to guess if you have kawi-extended or aftmkt you bring in bits of data, then that changes the scenario(s)... I'm not saying it's your fault, it's things like this that sorta help with the diagnose.

WARR: Ring!-Ring! Hello, factory, how can I direct your call?
Ran-T: I want to mod my bike under warranty, can you switch me to...

WARR: Yes, that will be the racing dept. Peas hold.
Ran-T: Hey lady, why would I want to hold peas? Ping-music begins!

WARR: Hello, racing dept.
Ran-T: Hi, I called to find out if I do this or that my warranty is...

WARR: WOT are you going to do with our #1 top shelf baby?
Ran-T: I was going to change my pipe.

WARR: WATT other things are you going to do?
Ran-T: I want to install a piggyback.

WARR: What else?
Ran-T: Flashithing.

WARR: OK, you came to the right place, how can I help me?
Ran-T: Now, I'm going to putt around with the changed chemical reaction.

WARR: That's fine.
Ran-T: You mean I didn't explain how much warranty I had, I'm just saying this puppy's tail is wagging out of #3 cylinder and it's under a year old. I cover my mouth teahe was not on the gas when it happened, it was just idling.

WARR: I don't see a problem.
Ran-T: So you'll fix it?

WARR: This is the racing dept. We sell racing kits, instructions, CD's for the ECU and you com together.
Ran-T: Right, I'll flashit next time.

WARR: Right, so like I was saying, we sell that kit with0UT warranty.
Ran-T: You mean as if I don't have a leg to or rod to stand on?

WARR: ASS Write, it says it right there with all the paper trail and did you follow the O'sMan on page?
Ran-T: Why, I think I found an M in my wallet. Oh, look, an A and an E. OK, thanks factory, I'm going to take that mentality to the bank.

---

Yup. And with a flash done right, you don't need a PCV.

C, absolutely no offense, but I am in camp "The Hand's Camp" when it comes to coming up against a flash alone. I keep repeating, 'the best can be beaten' and my competitive spirit has a bullseye on your ass I'm coming to mow you down. That means I would have to assume Smoke's times would drop you remove the pig. Are we on the same page? Seems simple enough, right?

The accel pump feature is a garbage feature designed to simulate a carbureted feel

Again, no offense I bring in Pen? OTTO was stuck with Pen in the lab/garage. Holly was in the garage and stuck with Pen as was OTTO. Pen has a lag like a dragboat coming out of the water and the prop runs linear, right? So didn't the prop sort of show you how the fluid reacts in that lag-linear, we squirt that lag and oh look, torque makes the tire spin: if you milk the feature just right. Are we not stuck with Pen the Ultimate, and it answers as if FI was the first carb. We'd still have the air suck showing a rich AFReaction rich: look at the IAP sucking on WOT&Lift. Are we on the same page? Did we see that the IAP is part of the 760mmHg?: I cannot get out of this loop I bring in one step after the other and Pen crushes your 'garbage' is more Pen compacts it >> Think of that train oil tanker.

Losing your gear indicator is not manly. It is dumb.

Ouch! When in the hack, I'm gear-indy-N or gear-indy-6, that shitshotshifting takes the hit and WATT a difference! I need to run this flashit already. It's gotta hit like that gear sensor is disabled off the ECU; the smooth running shifts are gone... Someone take the bet. No offense, but it's gotta be locking that GPS somehow?

Tech trickles down. WSB or MGP don't use pcv's. They use a flash specific to local conditions. Why? Because a pure ECU tune is a better and more refined product. Oh wait, that's what Nels and I do.

Oh wait, from now on I am not going to repeat no offense to you or your camp. Factory has that GPS map. I do not see any GPS map as I do with the kit-ECU for the 6r&10r kawi's. So when you lock that GPS, limp in the grunt is that same kind of hit to the 760mmHg's. So, trickledown gps maps you do not have with the Wooly software. I wish Justin would find that map as in kitECU. So this trickledown is not in the cards with our flashing the ECU as I've been at this for awhile.

---

Where does the tech come from hub??? From the world of engine evolution. THE TECH TRICKLES DOWN FROM SOMEWHERE. Period. Moto GP doesn't use bullshit piggys. Don't you have a full wooly setup? Quit bein scared. Quit playing on the outside. Tune your own machine for real. The race teams that are the pinnacle of where YOU came from in your own riding history don't use piggybacks. This ain't rocket science. You are a fairly smart dude. You have a full wooly setup. Figure it out instead of relying on crutches that only play on the outside, and then justifying that reliance. No one is going to EVOLE to a piggyback tune. But we will evolve to ecu's tuned for AFR and everything else. Oh wait, we are already there....
Time to keep up or get out of the way. I can't help that. Hope I have not offended. Just trying to wake some people up. Things are not like they were in tuning a decade ago. They just are not. Period. Keep using decade old tools and you will keep getting decade old results. Good luck, god speed.

---

If you had been at this for awhile hub, you would have already developed your own flash. You had not ever even used a PC nor ever tuned a map until you got this 14r right?. Have you ever ridden your own 14R with just a pure flash? Have you ever built your own dyno tune with a powercommander??? Nope. You ride slow as shit now. I've seen the vids. Tried to be nice, but TrailBoss is right. Slow as fuck. Show us your tires????? Show us something. You got all the theory in the world but it gets old when you don't ride fast or current. Period. Do something other than talk and then back it up or maybe shut up on stuff you have zero idea about. I back my shit up. I ride. I tune. Period. What do you really do other than yap. How many hard miles you got?

Just like you say. No offense.

---

---

I can't talk a lot of fancy technical talk nor can I speak the language of the Hubster very well....but what I can offer is this....

First, other than having him flash my ECU I have no relationship with Cblast.

I had a PCV mapped for my Yosh R77's....the bike ran great.

I decided to get a CBlast flash and the bike runs much, much better with noticeable gains throughout. The difference was so noticeable I often wonder if the PCV was really even doing anything.

My personal conclusion is that Cblast has tuned a product that, to my knowledge, has had zero complaints and that everyone raves about. Would you be upset with a PCV and a proper map....probably not. But for a few extra bucks why not get something that is built specifically for your bike and your riding conditions. Something that you unplug and plug back in....Seems like a no brainer to me....but again, that's just my opinion.

Ride safe everyone,

Troy

---

... use bullshit piggys. Don't you have a full wooly setup?

Yep, that and the AFR times 2. So I can read pig or I can read flash alone.

Quit bein scared. Quit playing on the outside. Tune your own machine for real.

I have. WATTs the big deal?

This ain't rocket science.

Yes it is, computers still rule the skies.

You have a full wooly setup. Figure it out instead of relying on crutches that only play on the outside...

Where am I going to go with this? I'm not going to go racing/daytrack/buy pipes. I'm studying the inside now.

But we will evolve to ecu's tuned for AFR and everything else. Oh wait, we are already there...

No offense, but I can't tell if anyone can tell the shifting difference between a flash and a tre-cut to the GPS. I kept hinting and that's my testing.

Time to keep up or get out of the way. I can't help that. Hope I have not offended. Just trying to wake some people up.

Well, that's watt I'm saying in so many wake up words. No idle, shit shifting and a few points rich in the AFR.

Things are not like they were in tuning a decade ago.

No shit. I'm finding this out the hard way without a dyno. I'm finding out the hard way about cut and pasting over cells. I'm learning the hard way about the GPS hackamp.

If you had been at this for awhile hub, you would have already developed your own flash.

Feels like a stronger hack is all.

You had not ever even used a PC nor ever tuned a map until you got this 14r right?

Incorrect/correct. I used the pot screws 3 times on 3 bikes with AFR's on 2 of the later bikes, and a pc now on the current bike. That pretty much dials in what you dial in only [pot] quicker, and the accel works magic. However, less bells and whistles. Accel would light up the tire on the slightest good yank.

Have you ever ridden your own 14R with just a pure flash?

Yes, my own cob of a flash. Immediately noticed the GPS was out of the loop, smoother, some grunt like a combined limp of sensors signing off.

Have you ever built your own dyno tune with a powercommander???

Nope. I've started with a map and then made another map to toggle over to. So yes, lots of maps from 12's up to 14's. The richer the smoother. Power wise, I can't tell? I know the dyno would but I'm not into numbers. I'm into seat of the pants.

You ride slow as shit now. I've seen the vids.

Yep, I'm pretty much beat up and old. Still crashing in my 60's so I need to prove nothing to me about going fast. Fuck the rest of you I need to prove shit. Take it or leave it. No offense to the faster gal/guys I get in your way, hey-hey.

Tried to be nice, but TrailBoss is right. Slow as fuck. Show us your tires????? Show us something.

Oh, you know that old vid with the burnout in the beginning, then the camera drops down at the back tire? I haven't done a burnout in over 30 years. Left a line of rubber, how hard out of the gate was that? I rubber stamped that leave. Try it after 30 years was more surprised myself when I saw it. Think I could replicate it? Lets see you try it. No offense to your clutch pack (lol JK, C).

You got all the theory in the world but it gets old when you don't ride fast or current. Period.

Trust me, even at my age I think I can hang wit chew boys. (spits on the ground, hit's the dog's head). And don't bring your fucking rear brakes! LOL... NOT KIDDING!

Do something other than talk and then back it up or maybe shut up on stuff you have zero idea about. I back my shit up. I ride. I tune. Period. What do you really do other than yap. How many hard miles you got?

I've got a fucking warning to you amateur flashers. DARE IS NO TURNING BACK... Clicks both heels... Dare is no way I play against the factory boys without a backup ECU. Dare, I said it and I'm sticking to it.

* Last updated by: Hub on 8/28/2014 @ 3:17 PM *

---

I've got a fucking warning to you amateur flashers. DARE IS NO TURNING BACK... Clicks both heels... Dare is no way I play against the factory boys without a backup ECU. Dare, I said it and I'm sticking to it.

Yup, you are scared. You said it not me. There is no turning back. I ain't skeered.

And I am not an amateur.

---

Well, maybe scared was meant more like saying, 'excited' I have a problem to solve? Wouldn't it be boring if it worked just like that? So this kind of situation makes me a better tuner I bring the idle back and the smack at the gear position sensor is found by some odd click? If it got me there I can get it back, right?

Exactly the kind of stuff I'm looking for.

* Last updated by: Hub on 8/28/2014 @ 3:16 PM *

---

And I am not an amateur.

While this may or may not be true, if you yourself have to state it then...

* Last updated by: hagrid on 8/28/2014 @ 3:33 PM *

---

I'm going with "not true" hatred, I mean Hagrid.

---

hatred, I mean Hagrid.

"The sting in any rebuke must be the truth."

---

If you were called a child molester would it sting?

---

Only if there were any truth in the accusation.

Do you see how it works now?

I'll help you through the theory if need be.

---

My previous post was the answer to your "do you see how it works now?" question. Your truth is not truth at all but rather opinion. You know it just as well as anyone reading this does, or at least I think you're intelligent enough to know what opinion means.

* Last updated by: Nastynotch on 8/29/2014 @ 3:49 AM *

---

My opinion, your opinion,...

The quest for proven fact continues.

---

DEBATE IS HEALTHY PEOPLE. I'M GLAD TO SEE SOME PASSION.

CBLAST

Someone else here (on the forum) mentioned about having an ECU from a wrecked 14R. Would it be possible to procure one, have your flash service done to it, and use it on my bike? If you don't want to discuss this publicly, send me a PM.

I am exploring my options. Sweet pic btw...like melted chocolate!

ROOK

Thanks for your first comment. A big part of me agrees with you. I think you get me about the best out of anyone here.

HUB
My warranty is genuine Kawasaki. I would never buy an aftermarket warranty (well I shouldn't say never, but I've heard they can be quite problematic.

RKTSLED
Actually the reason I bought the 4 years warranty is because I do figure that there won't be any issues I'll be too concerned about the first couple years. However, I'm betting by year 4/5 something warrant able will happen. Actually it wasn't extremely expensive or anything, $950 for the extend 4 years (5 years total). Obviously they offer this product because they make money on it. For every claim, probalby 2 never have claims. But I figure the longevity odds are in my favor.

* Last updated by: VicThing on 8/28/2014 @ 7:14 PM *

All in the spirit and passion of healthy debate. No ill will from me!

@vic
Absolutely, not a problem. You want to make sure you get an ecu with the exact same part # as the one in your machine. There are a bunch out there. Whether Cali spec, or ABS etc., makes a difference.

---